Time Explained

[lpetrich]

What a dumb argument...

You can see there's a space between your hands. When you waggle them, you can see them moving. But you can't see time. And it's as simple as that. There is no time flowing, thereare no wormholes, there is no travelling through time. Sadly people do rather cling to beliefs for which there is no observable evidence.

You don't see space directly - you see differences in position. So by your argument about time, space does not exist.

...the real question is why you seem to think that the Dirac equation is wrong.

No, it isn't, and no I don't. But if you wish to discuss it further, please do so on th electromagnetism thread.

Which thread is that?

[Farsight]

You can see there's a space between your hands. When you waggle them, you can see them moving. But you can't see time. And it's as simple as that. There is no time flowing, thereare no wormholes, there is no travelling through time. Sadly people do rather cling to beliefs for which there is no observable evidence.

You don't see space directly - you see differences in position. So by your argument about time, space does not exist.

No, lpetrich. By my argument, it's the only thing that does exist. How do you make space warp? How do you create an action that pulses along at c and can be turned into matter via pair production? How do you add energy to space? Put more space in it.

Which thread is that?

This one: Understanding electromagnetism.

[colubridae]

Don't let people spoil the thread, guys. Some people will do anything to prevent an open sincere discussion.

Simply ignoring posts because they don't fit your cockamammy ideas isn't an open and sincere discussion...

Here is my post again. It’s not debatable…

You used this ridiculous maths to demonstrate your assertion…

And we know already that a velocity is a distance divided by a time. So if a period is a wavelength divided by a velocity, that means a period is a distance divided by a distance divided by a time. So let’s do some simple mathematics. Let’s work it through. We can combine T = λ / v and v = λ / t and write it down as:

T = λ / ( λ / t)

Then we can cancel out the λs to get:

T = 1/(1/t)

Then we cancel the double reciprocal to leave:

T = t

The answer we get is T = t. A period of time is a period of time. This mathematical definition of time is circular. The mathematics tells us nothing about its base terms. So what is its true nature? How do we dig down and get to the bottom of it?

When I used your same stupid ‘proof’ technique:-

Also since we now know that T = t

We can now substitute in our original equation [1]

Giving
T = λ / ( λ / T)



Again cancelling Ts gives


1 = λ / ( λ / 1)


Gives

1 = λ / λ

Multiplying both sides by λ gives

λ = λ


The answer we get is λ = λ . A length of space is a length of space. This mathematical definition of space is also circular. The mathematics tells us nothing about its base terms. So what is its true nature? How do we dig down and get to the bottom of it?


Fuck me genius at work.

You failed to use your ‘maths’ to demonstrate where I was incorrect but you were correct, using identical methods.

If your technique is correct and mine isn’t show me where.

Your maths demonstrated ‘no time’, so when I use your stupid maths I must demonstrate ‘no space’?

You cannot pick and choose your bits of science willy-nilly it isn’t philosophy.
You cannot advance theories without making predictions that are testable.

Otherwise we would still be forced to accept “earth, fire, air and water” as valid theoretical science.


Once again

Your maths demonstrated ‘no time’, so when I use your maths I must demonstrate ‘no space’

You might be able to fool people into thinking that time is motion, now you have to fool them into thinking space is just motion as well.

[Twiglet]

Don't let people spoil the thread, guys. Some people will do anything to prevent an open sincere discussion.

Simply ignoring posts because they don't fit your cockamammy ideas isn't an open and sincere discussion...

Here is my post again. It’s not debatable…

You used this ridiculous maths to demonstrate your assertion…

And we know already that a velocity is a distance divided by a time. So if a period is a wavelength divided by a velocity, that means a period is a distance divided by a distance divided by a time. So let’s do some simple mathematics. Let’s work it through. We can combine T = λ / v and v = λ / t and write it down as:

T = λ / ( λ / t)

Then we can cancel out the λs to get:

T = 1/(1/t)

Then we cancel the double reciprocal to leave:

T = t

The answer we get is T = t. A period of time is a period of time. This mathematical definition of time is circular. The mathematics tells us nothing about its base terms. So what is its true nature? How do we dig down and get to the bottom of it?

When I used your same stupid ‘proof’ technique:-

Also since we now know that T = t

We can now substitute in our original equation [1]

Giving
T = λ / ( λ / T)



Again cancelling Ts gives


1 = λ / ( λ / 1)


Gives

1 = λ / λ

Multiplying both sides by λ gives

λ = λ


The answer we get is λ = λ . A length of space is a length of space. This mathematical definition of space is also circular. The mathematics tells us nothing about its base terms. So what is its true nature? How do we dig down and get to the bottom of it?


Fuck me genius at work.

You failed to use your ‘maths’ to demonstrate where I was incorrect but you were correct, using identical methods.

If your technique is correct and mine isn’t show me where.

Your maths demonstrated ‘no time’, so when I use your stupid maths I must demonstrate ‘no space’?

You cannot pick and choose your bits of science willy-nilly it isn’t philosophy.
You cannot advance theories without making predictions that are testable.

Otherwise we would still be forced to accept “earth, fire, air and water” as valid theoretical science.


Once again

Your maths demonstrated ‘no time’, so when I use your maths I must demonstrate ‘no space’

You might be able to fool people into thinking that time is motion, now you have to fool them into thinking space is just motion as well.

The Book: The Babel fish is small, yellow, leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centers of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NON-existence of God.
The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
`Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, "Well, That about Wraps It Up for God."
Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

[Brain Man]

Don't let people spoil the thread, guys. Some people will do anything to prevent an open sincere discussion.

Yeh..

"time" out till this thread is back on track.

order order..

[Brain Man]

The Book: The Babel fish is small, yellow, leechlike, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with nerve signals picked up from the speech centers of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish.
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the NON-existence of God.
The argument goes like this:
`I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.
`Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but that didn't stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-selling book, "Well, That about Wraps It Up for God."
Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation.

I need some "time" to think about that

[Twiglet]

Don't let people spoil the thread, guys. Some people will do anything to prevent an open sincere discussion.

Yeh..

"time" out till this thread is back on track.

order order..

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde...

The trouble with Scientific Temperament, is so many have the temperament, so few the science.

[Brain Man]

That just gave me an idea. You never really need time when you want to solve a problem. You always ask other people for time, but to yourself it always feels like what you need is space.

Thats consistent with the idea that time is an external or even social construct but when it comes down to it, what is real is space.

[Twiglet]

That just gave me an idea. You never really need time when you want to solve a problem. You always ask other people for time, but to yourself it always feels like what you need is space.

Thats consistent with the idea that time is an external or even social construct but when it comes down to it, what is real is space.

The test of science is whether it predicts experimental outcomes, rather than some philosophical idea of truth. If alternative theories are to gain traction, they need to explain what happens now and preferably suggest experiments in which existing theories predict different outcomes to the new theory. A new idea can be true without an experiment to show how it supercedes current ideas of course, but if the new idea doesn't predict anything and can't be tested, then it is really just a faith, isn't it?

[LaMont Cranston]

Brain Man, Both time and space has required to solve problems and have other experiences in life. Time and space are not an "either/or" thing; they come together as part of the same package. It is not about "need," it is merely a description of the way things already are. Or, if you can explain how anybody can perceive experiences without both time and space, please do so...

[traditionaldrummer]

I'm a drummer. I use metronomes for "perfect time". Time is essential to my craft. Perhaps it is just an illusion of our perceptions. But a damned important one. Think I'm kidding? Show up late at work tomorrow then try to use this Einstein shit as the excuse for your boss.

[owtth]

I'm a drummer. I use metronomes for "perfect time". Time is essential to my craft. Perhaps it is just an illusion of our perceptions. But a damned important one. Think I'm kidding? Show up late at work tomorrow then try to use this Einstein shit as the excuse for your boss.

One in a row!!!

[lpetrich]

It's rather easy to estimate how far off the Newtonian approximation is. About

(v/c)2

where v is a typical velocity and c the speed of light in a vacuum.

For driving at 60 mph, that is about 10-14 -- 1 part in 100 trillion.

[Brain Man]

That just gave me an idea. You never really need time when you want to solve a problem. You always ask other people for time, but to yourself it always feels like what you need is space.

Thats consistent with the idea that time is an external or even social construct but when it comes down to it, what is real is space.

The test of science is whether it predicts experimental outcomes, rather than some philosophical idea of truth. If alternative theories are to gain traction, they need to explain what happens now and preferably suggest experiments in which existing theories predict different outcomes to the new theory. A new idea can be true without an experiment to show how it supercedes current ideas of course, but if the new idea doesn't predict anything and can't be tested, then it is really just a faith, isn't it?

well yeh, but whats that got to do with what was just said ?

[Brain Man]

I'm a drummer. I use metronomes for "perfect time". Time is essential to my craft. Perhaps it is just an illusion of our perceptions. But a damned important one. Think I'm kidding? Show up late at work tomorrow then try to use this Einstein shit as the excuse for your boss.

Theres no such thing as perfect time in drumming. Experiments show that even the best drummers have a variance plus or minus a couple of milliseconds which they cant control. Probably because 3-4 millisecond is the time of neuron latency itself.