Har Har Har Global warming crap

[Cormac]

I haven't read anything yet that convinces me that our impact is more than an acceleration of the natural cycle.

Am I wrong?

At the same time, we have some scientists arguing that we're heading for another ice age. This is something I've been hearing since the 70's, on and off. Most recently a couple of weeks back.

When people say to me that the vast majority of scientists accept global warming, I find that to some extent convincing. However, there was a time when most scientists believed in phlogiston. Scientific orthodoxy has been overturned many times.

In general, I think we should limit or negate our environmental impact as much as possible, because it is, in my view, the ethical thing to do.

Ah but the really interesting question is does anyone give a flying fuck what you think? I wonder. I muse.

Ah. Sure opinions are like arseholes - everyone has one.

That said, you cared enough to reply.

Did you fall out of bed on the wrong side this morning? I detect a distinct grumpiness in your posts so far.

[mistermack]

Tero, did you confuse a bloggers site with facts, just because it's on the net?

I linked to the NSIDC, which is a national body sponsered by NASA.
Where the fuck did your graphic come from?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Tero]

Tero, did you confuse a bloggers site with facts, just because it's on the net?

I linked to the NSIDC, which is a national body sponsered by NASA.
Where the fuck did your graphic come from?

From the link below the hraphic. Your link only discloses data in the 2000s

[mistermack]

From the link below the hraphic. Your link only discloses data in the 2000s

Nope, wrong on both counts.
Your image came from a blogger's site, but they gave NO information as to where it came from originally.
My link and image was to an official NASA sponsored agency, with graphics of ice dating from days ago.
And I quote : "Daily Image Update: Sat., August 3, 2013"

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

Just one day old.

I doubt if the ice has changed much since yesterday, although some climate "scientists" would like to give that impression.

[pErvinalia]

MM, the artic ice sheet in Summer has been shrinking as a trend.

[Tero]

Your table and bar graphs have no 1900s data, MM. Starts at 2007. I did not say it was wrong. 2013 had more ice than 2007. So what? It's 5 years.

[Cormac]

MM, the artic ice sheet in Summer has been shrinking as a trend.

Caused solely by human caused pollution, accelerated by humanity but driven by natural cycles, driven by natural cycles, or perhaps some other phenomenon?

If not the former, then our response has to be a lot more deliberate and engineered than the "return to the caves and eat roots" notions of many.

Another involves simply accepting the rise in ocean levels and planning and controlling migration as much as possible.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

MM, the artic ice sheet in Summer has been shrinking as a trend.

Caused solely by human caused pollution, accelerated by humanity but driven by natural cycles, driven by natural cycles, or perhaps some other phenomenon?

If not the former, then our response has to be a lot more deliberate and engineered than the "return to the caves and eat roots" notions of many.

Another involves simply accepting the rise in ocean levels and planning and controlling migration as much as possible.

The extremists are fringers, Cormac.

[pErvinalia]

MM, the artic ice sheet in Summer has been shrinking as a trend.

Caused solely by human caused pollution, accelerated by humanity but driven by natural cycles, driven by natural cycles, or perhaps some other phenomenon?

If not the former, then our response has to be a lot more deliberate and engineered than the "return to the caves and eat roots" notions of many.

Another involves simply accepting the rise in ocean levels and planning and controlling migration as much as possible.

I can't do this. Hopefully Macdoc will be along at some point to sort this thread out.

[Cormac]

MM, the artic ice sheet in Summer has been shrinking as a trend.

Caused solely by human caused pollution, accelerated by humanity but driven by natural cycles, driven by natural cycles, or perhaps some other phenomenon?

If not the former, then our response has to be a lot more deliberate and engineered than the "return to the caves and eat roots" notions of many.

Another involves simply accepting the rise in ocean levels and planning and controlling migration as much as possible.

I can't do this. Hopefully Macdoc will be along at some point to sort this thread out.

It is undeniable that there are cycles of warming and cooling driven by factors on and off this planet.

This is relevant, because if our culture is exacerbating these natural cycles, then merely adjusting OUR behaviour is not going to prevent the cycle eventually having its effect. It also suggests that our efforts to halt or reverse our impact may be futile anyway, unless we invent a way to reverse our counterbalance the effect of natural forces - such as the sun. Now THAT is a geo-engineering challenge.

[mistermack]

MM, the artic ice sheet in Summer has been shrinking as a trend.

I wouldn't dispute that. No more than I would dispute the approx one degree of global warming since around 1900.
And given the one degree of warming, the slight shrinking is hardly surprising.
This thread was about the hyperbola that has been shouted from the rooftops, with no criticism or none of the mockery that it deserves.
You can make the most ridiculous claims, produce the most ludicrous models, and nobody says a word.
Like that BBC documentary about the arctic, that prompted me to post the OP.

They were laying it on incredibly thick, about how much the arctic ice-sheets were shrinking, with footage of a polar bear, making a whimpering noise, and standing on the edge of an ice-floe, staring at the sea, about to jump in.
As if it was about to end it all.

And then they came out with that line, about models predicting no summer ice, by the year 2013. That's what made me take note, the 2013 prediction.
I've just looked on the BBC website, and the documentary was first broadcast in 2008.
So the cheeky lying fuckers were making that kind of claim only five years ago.
Stunning what they can get away with.

[pErvinalia]

Therefore global warming is a hoax.

[mistermack]

Therefore global warming is a hoax.

No, the one degree of warming since 1895 is well measured and documented.
But of course, you're not supposed to mention that climate warms and cools naturally anyway, and that half of that one degree happened BEFORE any major rise in CO2 levels. When you are frowned on for mentioning facts, it's time to worry.

I've posted this graphic quite a few times, because it's so relevant. ( it's off wikipedia, but I added the arrows )



You only have to look at the current date to see that we are right at the top, of a naturally recurring cycle.
Today's conditions have happened before, at regular intervals over half a million years.
And we are right at the very warmest point in the natural cycle.

So the oceans SHOULD be warming, and the ice sheets SHOULD be shrinking, because of where we are in the cycle.
All this WOULD be happening anyway, without extra CO2. So none of it can be taken as evidence of a CO2 effect on it's own.
But that's what people are doing, day in, day out.
When the fact is, nobody actually knows, because we can't yet predict the climate accurately.
The predictions are constantly being proved wrong.

[macdoc]

hows the weather under sand there denidiots - bit stifling with your head well buried.

natural fucking cycle