Derails from Climate Change News thread.

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Seth
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Seth » Wed May 28, 2014 10:02 pm

macdoc wrote:
burying spent fuel rods
You've got about as much understanding of spent fuel and low level nuclear waste as you do of climate change and its risks....approaching zero and driven by ideology instead of cogent information.
Funny, because my friend who works at Los Alamos National Labs as a mixed nuclear waste disposal specialist seems to think I have a pretty good grasp of the magnitude of the problem.
Why would you support burying a fuel source that is barely 5% used?
Over leaving it in leaky open pits of water and corroding drums scattered all around the country because fuckwits don't think it's "safe" to transport it in the incredibly well tested nuclear transport casks to a disposal facility where the risk of widespread contamination will be minimized as much as it can be, given the nature of the waste.
Fast breeder reactors can produce plutonium as a byproduct (or as a main product), which is why we're trying to keep Iran from building them. Production of plutonium is one of the essential steps in creating nuclear weapons, so fast-breeder reactors are closely controlled in order to control the available supply of plutonium that might be diverted to terrorists or hostile nations.

Burning plutonium in a reactor such as the one you cite is a great idea except for one small thing: You have to get the materials to the reactor and you have to process it into usable form. Each stage of this process provides opportunity for diverting of weapons-grade plutonium or it's precursors. Can such security issues be handled? Maybe.

I have no objections to reusing spent fuel rods at all, but it's not realistically possible right now and leaving the stuff laying around essentially in the open is a very bad idea. If we really need it that badly, we can always mine it out of the Yucca Mountain complex again. We'll know exactly where it is after all.

If this guy's idea was all that good, I'd think there would be more interest than there is, which makes me believe there are very good reasons why his ideas are not mainstream.

He's not a very good writer either. He doesn't make a compelling and accessible argument for the masses as to why his acronym-filled technical information is worth reading for the average person. He needs to explain in simple language the differences between what he's suggesting and what Three Mile Island was all about if he hopes to convince people.
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Seth » Wed May 28, 2014 10:03 pm

Tero wrote:Well it breaks down DNA. What if I want to eat my DNA naturally broken, not irradiated?
Be my guest. Just don't eat commercially-produced hamburger, milk or fruits and vegetables.
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"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by JimC » Wed May 28, 2014 10:03 pm

Seth wrote:

Yup. It's like the thousands of people who die from preventable food-borne pathogens because a tiny group called "Food and Water" agitates against food irradiation which kills all such pathogens. They die because fuckwits hear "irradiation" and think it makes the food radioactive, which it doesn't.
You're correct in that gamma irradiation cannot induce radioactivity, unlike neutron bombardment. It is a good method to sterilise surgical wrappings, etc.

However, it generates many free radicals; these highly reactive substances can potentially produce carcinogens in irradiated food. There are many other tried and tested methods of eliminating food-born pathogens; and, in any case, the biggest health problem in the third world comes from pathogens in drinking water.
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Seth » Wed May 28, 2014 11:04 pm

JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:

Yup. It's like the thousands of people who die from preventable food-borne pathogens because a tiny group called "Food and Water" agitates against food irradiation which kills all such pathogens. They die because fuckwits hear "irradiation" and think it makes the food radioactive, which it doesn't.
You're correct in that gamma irradiation cannot induce radioactivity, unlike neutron bombardment. It is a good method to sterilise surgical wrappings, etc.

However, it generates many free radicals; these highly reactive substances can potentially produce carcinogens in irradiated food. There are many other tried and tested methods of eliminating food-born pathogens; and, in any case, the biggest health problem in the third world comes from pathogens in drinking water.
Yup. But still 8000 people per year die in the US from such pathogens, which is inexcusable.

I also question the "free radical" notion. My problem with free radicals is that there are far too many Alinskyite radicals running around free.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Elderito » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:40 am

Zach Noble is an assistant editor for TheBlaze, working in the Washington bureau. His prior work has appeared in such publications as the Washington Free Beacon, the Santa Barbara News-Press, FCW and Washington Technology.

TheBlaze (formerly titled GBTV) is a libertarian conservative/independent news, information, and entertainment television network founded by talk radio personality, and entrepreneur Glenn Beck. TheBlaze has two studios based in Las Colinas, Texas and in New York City, New York.

(Just for diclosure)

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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by JimC » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:27 am

Seth wrote:

I also question the "free radical" notion. My problem with free radicals is that there are far too many Alinskyite radicals running around free.
Attempted humour aside, you do understand the chemical concept of a free radical?

Don't you?
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Seth » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:37 am

Elderito wrote:Zach Noble is an assistant editor for TheBlaze, working in the Washington bureau. His prior work has appeared in such publications as the Washington Free Beacon, the Santa Barbara News-Press, FCW and Washington Technology.

TheBlaze (formerly titled GBTV) is a libertarian conservative/independent news, information, and entertainment television network founded by talk radio personality, and entrepreneur Glenn Beck. TheBlaze has two studios based in Las Colinas, Texas and in New York City, New York.

(Just for diclosure)
Circumstantial ad hominem fallacy.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Seth » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:37 am

JimC wrote:
Seth wrote:

I also question the "free radical" notion. My problem with free radicals is that there are far too many Alinskyite radicals running around free.
Attempted humour aside, you do understand the chemical concept of a free radical?

Don't you?
Of course. Sometimes you die...
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by JimC » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:46 am

Oh dear...

Remedial chemistry for you!
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Seth » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:32 am

JimC wrote:Oh dear...

Remedial chemistry for you!
You're saying that cancer doesn't kill people? Then what the hell are you bitching about free radicals for?
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by macdoc » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:43 am

Image
California Drought Conditions to Persist Through Summer
By Brian K. Sullivan May 15, 2014 1:40 PM ET 8 Comments Email Print

California doesn’t have much chance for rain in the next five months, and its best opportunity to break the drought there may hinge on the emergence of an El Nino in the Pacific Ocean this year, U.S. forecasters said.

The entire state is suffering some form of drought, as is 38.1 percent of the contiguous 48 states, according to the U.S. Drought Monitor.
....

The drought in California, the largest U.S. agricultural producer, has exacerbated wild fires burning in the southern part of the state and might force some farmers to abandoned fields as lack of water makes it impossible to grow crops.

Through the first four months of 2014, California and Arizona have experienced the hottest start to any year in records going back to 1895
more
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-1 ... ummer.html
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by macdoc » Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:13 pm

Conversation with a denier...
The main premis of my post was not to debate the non-human vs. human cause of global warming, but the unscientific use of truncated charts in trying to get the "uneducated masses" to understand. Local or global, with regard to ice cores, is moot.
Given your post presents no science whatsoever tis a bit ironic. We have a very strong chart of the global temperatures since emerging from the last ice age and we are now moving out of that envelope. We were until a couple hundred years ago drifting slowly as expected to the next ice age colder temperatures driven by orbital changes...Milankovich cycles.
Our emissions of fossil carbon have cancelled that drift.

There are 56 lines of enquiry leading to this graph summary...the "spike" as you call it is the Holocene Optimum after we exited the last glacial period and was driven by our orbital position and tilt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles


Image

Do you have an "explanation" for the sudden upward jump at the right?? ELves burning leaves ??? If you want others to cite backup....then proceed to do so yourself and back your "opinion" with supportive evidence.
Fact is there have been large changes both directions in the past.

Talk about sloppy - how about we concentrate on the past 10k years during which civilization arises. Changes do not happen without a reason.
Do you have any??
The bit about the "sun declining" needs citing.
Since you don't want to search the thread or something easily found in google.

Image
The sunspot activity cycles about every 11 years, so I'm not sure what you mean.

Yes you are not sure - that's at least refreshing - you don't know and have not read climate science articles or you would know. The sun and the climate are going in opposite directions as the graph above notes...from this article.
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-a ... arming.htm
the dreaded "greenhouse gasses" are NOT some mysterious man-made product. Mostly CO2 which has waxed and waned in cycles. True, no recent volcano has spewed GHG into the air recently, but looking at the last 10,000 years worth of temp. data I see nothing out of the ordinary recently. In fact there was a MUCH larger spike several thousand years ago, and in the mid 20th century a deep dip. You can't take a small piece of a mountain graph and prove a point. Heck, I could flip a coin 10,000 times get 10 tails in a row, and show you only the 40 flips that proceeded it and say the coin is faulty. Proper use of raw data is all I ask for. For the record I DO believe humans have been partially at fault for the increase in CO2 and other GHG...
Ummm I don't think you quite understand that we have raised the C02 levels of the atmosphere by 40% - levels not seen for millions of years.
This is not new and has nothing to do with volcanos. The latter generally cool the atmosphere for a couple of years by releasing SO2 into the stratosphere.
How do we know that recent CO2 increases are due to human activities?
Filed under: Climate Science FAQ Greenhouse gases Paleoclimate — eric @ 22 December 2004 - (Svenska) (Español) (Français)

- See more at: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... 6WrZm.dpuf
This is a result of man using fossil fuels and releasing long sequestered carbon to the atmosphere which changes the radiative balance.

If you are an honest inquirer then I suggest you follow some of the links in my signature instead of coming into a science forum so ill prepared.

You don't get to be a little bit pregnant.
If you accept..
CO2 traps IR.

Then you must follow the chain of evidence to where it leads.

It's getting warmer.
We're responsible.


People here are happy to answer your questions....but please understand you have a very poor grasp of the fundamentals at this point.

Best place to start
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/ar ... tart-here/

others.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/empiric ... arming.htm

http://ossfoundation.us/projects/enviro ... man-caused

This is a reasonably complete visual of the forces at work.

Image

Feel free to ask questions. The red arrows are the crux of the problem.
More IR trapping by CO2 ...you've acknowledged it, now you know where the additional CO2 comes from .

Follow the chain of evidence.

Image

Image

Image

The explanation and physics are rather simple.
What to do about it beyond trying not to make it worse is very tricky.
THAT is where the discussion needs to be.
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by macdoc » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:43 am

hehe

Some pointed perspective
Image
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by Hermit » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:03 am

macdoc wrote:hehe

Some pointed perspective
Image
Cute, but palm trees on the north pole? Isn't that spot covered by water even now? :think:
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Re: Derails from Climate Change News thread.

Post by JimC » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:30 am

Hermit wrote:
macdoc wrote:hehe

Some pointed perspective
Image
Cute, but palm trees on the north pole? Isn't that spot covered by water even now? :think:
With continental drift, there may well have been a land mass there...
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