New human-like species discovered in South Africa

[Hermit]

The species, which has been named naledi, has been classified in the grouping, or genus, Homo, to which modern humans belong.

The researchers who made the find have not been able to find out how long ago these creatures lived - but the scientist who led the team, Prof Lee Berger, told BBC News that he believed they could be among the first of our kind (genus Homo) and could have lived in Africa up to three million years ago.
...

Ms Elliott and her colleagues believe that they have found a burial chamber. The Homo naledi people appear to have carried individuals deep into the cave system and deposited them in the chamber - possibly over generations.

If that is correct, it suggests naledi was capable of ritual behaviour and possibly symbolic thought - something that until now had only been associated with much later humans within the last 200,000 years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-34192447

[mistermack]

If that is correct, it suggests naledi was capable of ritual behaviour and possibly symbolic thought - something that until now had only been associated with much later humans within the last 200,000 years.

I really don't know why they ever thought that. Just because the solid artifacts haven't been found, doesn't mean the behaviour wasn't there. That's the absence of evidence fallacy.

200,000 years is only 5 to 10 thousand generations. Just a blip in evolutionary terms.
I doubt that our direct ancestors were much different, back then. Although there were other lines then as well, that are now extinct. They might have been substantially different.

This just shows that we are only seeing a tiny bit of the picture, so far.

[Svartalf]

Their brains were the size of an orange, was that enough for speech and ritual (i e religious) behavior?

[Hermit]

Their brains were the size of an orange, was that enough for speech and ritual (i e religious) behavior?

The likelihood bordering on certainty that the site the archaeologists discovered was a burial site would suggest it was - at least in a rudimentary form.

[mistermack]

It's not the absolute size of the brain that's important. It's the RATIO of brain size to body size, that indicates the likely intelligence.

This one had a brain the size of a gorilla's. But body size appears to have been much smaller. So you would expect a more "advanced" creature than a gorilla.

But speech is as much about the vocal arrangements, as brain size. There's an area in the brain " Broca's area, or something similar" that indicates if an animal had voluntary breathing control, which is essential for speech.
That's what Chimps and Gorillas struggle with. They can do rudimentary language, like in sign language, but they can't control their breathing to intentionally make the sounds.

Parrots, on the other hand, can make the sounds, but can't form language.

If a Gorilla had the breath control of a parrot, it would probably be able to produce restricted language, without any increase in brain size.

[JimC]

mistermack wrote:

If a Gorilla had the breath control of a parrot, it would probably be able to produce restricted language, without any increase in brain size.

Now, with a little creative genetic engineering, it could be done!

I predict that the first words it utters will be "Polly wants a banana!"

[jamest]

That cave is only 6,000 years old, by the looks of things.

I have a passing interest in geology.

[JimC]

That cave is only 6,000 years old, by the looks of things.

I have a passing interest in geology.

So, a passing interest and a quick glance allow you to do a chronological assessment that normally requires a battery of complex tests?

The mind boggles...

[jamest]

That's where you're going wrong. Batteries which have undergone complex testing are not the issue unless you plan on staying in the cave for prolonged amounts of time. I wouldn't need to do so, given my natural talent to assess such things.

[JimC]

I will allow for the possibility that you were taking the piss...

[jamest]

Fuck me, no wonder I'm hounded by trolls.

[JimC]

Better than being trolled by hounds...

[mistermack]

I thought the cave didn't exist, except as a mental concept.

It can be any age you like.

And it's not for fat western cunts. We wouldn't get in there.
It was only small women who got through to investigate it. So the humans who first got in there must have been small.

I think that that's why they are speculating that the burials were ritualistic. It would have been really hard to drag a body through that tight tunnel.

Or maybe they used it as a prison, and the people went in alive, and died down there.
But what the fuck did they use for light, millions of years ago?