MGS3: Snake Eater Mafia - Tactical Espionage Action (GAME)

[Gonzo]

limiting claims is a bad idea, they should either be allowed or be made against the rules so that a claiming player is mod killed. I bet scum don't have name claims in that game, which is one thing I will not be doing for every game I host from now on. Scum need fake claims. It screws the scum team over not to have safe claims and I know better than to not give them from my experience on scum teams myself. It's an important part of the game design to prevent mass outings that will guarantee a town win and I will never make the mistake of designing a game that enables that again. The scum still had a chance in this game, but without fake role claims they were seriously disadvantaged.

[amok]

Zig, why on Earth did you nk gib? Didn't help you in the slightest to do so.

I was hoping to cast suspicion on the outed specials, and I couldn't risk missing a kill. I figured Gib would not be protected and that he could really hurt me in the endgame, if it came to it.

That was very clever strategy.

My decision to block gib could have been my undoing. It made people suspicious of me, but to be fair (and I was going to point it out if I was going to be lynched), that the remarks about "agreeing" to use gib to protect andrew were incorrect. I never agreed to that.

the agreement was between the lines, hard to explain

Yes, I know that. What I meant was I was not going to agree to that, nor say that outright in the thread, because I thought you were Scum. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm trying to improve my game by not second-guessing myself so much and not hand-wringing so much. I have a tendency to do that, and have been scolded for it a few times. I had a strong hunch and I acted on it. Unfortunately.

[gib]

@gonzo, safeclaims for scum also mean we can get on with payng mafia instead of playing the claim game

plus imho people with flavor knowledge should only have so much of an advantage

[oblivion]

There was a time when early mass claims were happening a lot at RnR (before mafia at TR really took off). I started GMing at TR at a time when mass outs had to be compensated for by the GM. I did some crazy stuff in my first few games to screw town up if they mass claimed.

At TR, early mass claims never really caught hold, in part due to the vigilance of the GMs. At ratz they've never caught hold either, and I think many players consider it to be not mafia, or at least not sportin' to mass claim early. Though once in a while we get a game design where it is tempting.

Reading the game at SGU, the early day 1 is all about deciding what info they want for pseudoclaims, which would narrow down the characters from the flavor that each claimant could be. My general reaction is "it's not mafia", but I can see how both town and scum could use pseudoclaims for gambits similar to the ones we use - vanilla town dropping special tells, for instance.

[Uselesstwit]

It's not a big mistake amok, you never really should trust someone who isn't town. you'll never have more than their word about their win condition.

[Uselesstwit]

@gonzo, safeclaims for scum also mean we can get on with payng mafia instead of playing the claim game

plus imho people with flavor knowledge should only have so much of an advantage

To much of this win was based on flavor and guessing at the mechanics rather than sleuthing. It was a blast to play but it does feel like scum had extra weight to carry.

[gib]

Zig, why on Earth did you nk gib? Didn't help you in the slightest to do so.

I was hoping to cast suspicion on the outed specials, and I couldn't risk missing a kill. I figured Gib would not be protected and that he could really hurt me in the endgame, if it came to it.

That was very clever strategy.

My decision to block gib could have been my undoing. It made people suspicious of me, but to be fair (and I was going to point it out if I was going to be lynched), that the remarks about "agreeing" to use gib to protect andrew were incorrect. I never agreed to that.

the agreement was between the lines, hard to explain

Yes, I know that. What I meant was I was not going to agree to that, nor say that outright in the thread, because I thought you were Scum. Obviously I was wrong, but I'm trying to improve my game by not second-guessing myself so much and not hand-wringing so much. I have a tendency to do that, and have been scolded for it a few times. I had a strong hunch and I acted on it. Unfortunately.

sure, i just meant between me and charlou. Maybe i imagined it but it felt to me like i could tell when she was being straight and when she was giving scum a dose of wifom. I'm hoping that was mutual. Anyway one way or another i felt she'd told me to look after andrew

[gib]

It's not a big mistake amok, you never really should trust someone who isn't town. you'll never have more than their word about their win condition.

damn right, i'd have lynched me the day we got 2 lynches tbh

[MattShizzle]

Yeah, I would rather not have knowing much of the flavor be a big help. I'm almost always totally unkowledgeable of the flavor when it's a game based on a computer game, TV show, fantasy book, etc. My games tend to be more generic (ie the "Old West" one here, or a generic "Lovecraftian" one not having actual characters from any stories.) My next game will be the first ever based on something specific (Wasteland - the classic 1987 computer RPG) and with named characters.

[amok]

Hm. OK. I consider delving into the flavour as one aspect of sleuthing, but maybe I'll try playing a few games without doing so. I had never heard of Metal Gear before playing this game, either, by the way. I'm glad I read about it though, if for no other reason that I love the idea of the guy running around in a cardboard box.

[gib]

Yeah, I would rather not have knowing much of the flavor be a big help. I'm almost always totally unkowledgeable of the flavor when it's a game based on a computer game, TV show, fantasy book, etc. My games tend to be more generic (ie the "Old West" one here, or a generic "Lovecraftian" one not having actual characters from any stories.) My next game will be the first ever based on something specific (Wasteland - the classic 1987 computer RPG) and with named characters.

i really like the idea of generic flavors like your western themed game. Everybody knows the stereotypes and can have fun speculating.

[MattShizzle]

Other upcoming ones I have are Beavis and Butthead, 1920s, Lovecraft III (first 2 were at TR - this one will take place on the space station), "Your Retarded II - Revenge of the Retards" (1st was at TR - town is retards, scum bullies) and my first game with 3 factions - pirates vs ninjas vs zombies.

[charlou]

Another entertaining game from Gonzo *tips hat* , and thanks to everyone


irre: "what happens in the game, stays in the game"

[gib]

charlou how about another saucy avatar?

[charlou]

Zig, why on Earth did you nk gib? Didn't help you in the slightest to do so.

I was hoping to cast suspicion on the outed specials, and I couldn't risk missing a kill. I figured Gib would not be protected and that he could really hurt me in the endgame, if it came to it.

That was very clever strategy.

My decision to block gib could have been my undoing. It made people suspicious of me, but to be fair (and I was going to point it out if I was going to be lynched), that the remarks about "agreeing" to use gib to protect andrew were incorrect. I never agreed to that.

the agreement was between the lines, hard to explain

Aye, though someone (UT I think?) stated explicitly that we should lynch you if Andrew was nk'd.

gib, did you busdrive anyone on night four?