Hitman: Blood Money Mafia - A Dance With The Devil

[Don't Panic]

Thanks for the game, Gonzo, everyone.

I enjoyed watching but found it difficult not being able to say anything ...


... so I set up a writeboard and talked to myself

http://123.writeboard.com/tsfh76cxe4opdiqv

password: gah

Char, sorry for submitting your actions without consulting you first last game, that was thoughtless of me, my reasons for dropping out this game were as stated, I didn't have time to play last weekend and felt it would be more fair to let someone who had time to take my place.

Read the game over the last few days, sorry I missed it, but doubt I could have lasted as long as mz.

Irre, I played one day, how was that evil?

Mz, thanks for subbing in, you is good scum.

[r.c]

Good game gonzo!

amok, good play!

rc, how did you know/speculate/guess that aza and contra were both scum but that neither was agent 47? A suspiciously accurate inference...

I assumed A47 would rather hide among the guests than drawing attention by claiming that he was not invited.

[oblivion]

Good game gonzo!

amok, good play!

rc, how did you know/speculate/guess that aza and contra were both scum but that neither was agent 47? A suspiciously accurate inference...

I assumed A47 would rather hide among the guests than drawing attention by claiming that he was not invited.

You played a really good game. I don't think I would have suspected you if I weren't focused on the guests to find agent 47, because you were thoughtful and observant and mostly posting stuff that town players would be thinking.

It will take me a while to calibrate your town game. I rely on meta, and what I think of as relative tells (as opposed to objective tells) more than most players do.

yesterday, you did a great job of pointing up the huge oversight I'd made in thinking that an agent 47 who was sure there wasn't a doctor would have gone after Ani instead of zigmen on night 4. that finally got me off the trolley tracks and I was able to seriously look at other players.

[oblivion]

Amok, you played a fantastic, solid town game. You were right in the middle of the pile of players who had to contain scum, yet you had most (all?) of town convinced you had to be town. your analyses and attention to detail really were an asset to town.

You earned MVP imo.

[Linus]

You [amok] earned MVP imo.

Agreed.

[Linus]

Good game gonzo!

amok, good play!

rc, how did you know/speculate/guess that aza and contra were both scum but that neither was agent 47? A suspiciously accurate inference...

I assumed A47 would rather hide among the guests than drawing attention by claiming that he was not invited.

Makes sense, thanks.

[oblivion]

Well, my first experience as scum was a total failure - full of missteps and Freudian slips. Btw, the "STRANGER DANGER!" comments were just game play. I think that the mechanic was sound with the exception of the list which had us done for from day one.

I was really freaking out once the mass claim started and decided to claim the "wheelchair dude" (Cayne). The doubling back to counter claim Zig was a last minute move born out of desperation - hoping to get one more townie lynched before my exit.

Great game, town. I enjoyed playing. Thanks for hosting, Gonzo.

It is not easy being scum. It takes a while to develop the necessary degree of caution and care with your posts while also maintaining some semblance of townish spontaneity and uncertainty. I have the caution and care down, but I still struggle with the spontaneity and appropriate degree of townish uncertainty and flip-flopping.

[Linus]

BTW, I think the seer cover strategy has merit if it's done with care. In the 2+2 forum I've seen it used in games where the GM makes it clear from the start that the game had 1 seer and no other specials, so the cost of having views die with the seer is greater and there is no doc role to keep the seer alive for one more day after outing. Still, even in the special-filled games at TR/Ratz I think it can be useful. Not only to give the seer cover but also because reactions can be informative. People who like to analyze NKs also get more to work with, since straightforward scum are likely to kill seer covering players with correct view reports while tricky scum may do the opposite.

[Feck]

BTW, I think the seer cover strategy has merit if it's done with care. In the 2+2 forum I've seen it used in games where the GM makes it clear from the start that the game had 1 seer and no other specials, so the cost of having views die with the seer is greater and there is no doc role to keep the seer alive for one more day after outing. Still, even in the special-filled games at TR/Ratz I think it can be useful. Not only to give the seer cover but also because reactions can be informative. People who like to analyze NKs also get more to work with, since straightforward scum are likely to kill seer covering players with correct view reports while tricky scum may do the opposite.

I'd love to be scum when you try this .

[Linus]

I'd love to be scum when you try this .

It's a deal! Just let me know the next time you're scum and I'm town.

[Feck]

I'd love to be scum when you try this .

It's a deal! Just let me know the next time you're scum and I'm town.

OK

[oblivion]

I get torn between what I think you're capable of and what you actually do for town. I'm seeing pro town but the "she could have pulled a stunt" specter looms. Plus when all is said and done, you are an officer with an invitation. That much adds up. Contra admits he doesn't.

remind me I want to talk about this postgame.

Charlou actually reminded me that I had wanted to respond to this outside of the context of an ongoing game.

When I say I am a statistical fluke, I mean it. I have played 2 scum games in the last year. one here at ratz (where I was caught out on day 2) and one at FF where as a relative unknown I was able to help scum win against huge odds and in defiance of mafia logic. I don't so much take credit for that win as I acknowledge I was very lucky in still being a relatively unknown quantity at FF, and in getting pushed off my usual (terrible) scum game and having to improvise A LOT.

My game is so tuned toward being town. for those 2 scum games, I played nearly 50 games in total in the last year, and was an indie 5-6 times. the town game I've developed is detrimental to those rare occasions when I wind up with an antitown role.

I've concluded that it's not necessary to practice being scum a whole lot to be effective scum, though. I hope I can bring some of my learnings from the FF game (and from some recent abysmal town performances) into my play no matter what my role.

As town, I get away with a lot. certainly I get away with more than is good for my game. It has made me sloppy. and it has also made me complacent. game after game I put my foot in it, commit some huge gaffe and somehow don't get lynched and wind up (usually) helping my team far more than I harmed it.

this game was no exception. I should have been lynched on day 2 for goofing so badly regarding the contents of the vanilla role PM. I accepted it as inevitable and decided to play in such a way as would support the players I was sure were town without any regard for avoiding my lynch. At that point in the game, those players were gib and irre. So, I followed gib's vote onto diva, even though it increased the chances of my being lynched. I went back to linus later with a sense of relief, because I thought he looked scummier than diva.

I had diva on ignore and should not have even seen her post about my possibly lying about sending gonzo a pm. the reason I saw it was that I was on my phone reading via tapatalk when she made the post. tapatalk and the phpbb forum software are not as well integrated as tapatalk and vbulletin. the ignore feature is one of the areas where tapatalk/phpbb are lacking.

So I saw that post about the PM and I had a hissy fit because I could not fathom a situation where the GM would clarify something for one player but not for another, or (as I requested) clarify it for all players. It was a failure of imagination on my part. And, instead of going relatively quetly to the gallows on day 2, I wound up inserting a pile of drama into the game.

after diva's cardflip, I talked about the situation with 2 non-ratz players. One is pragmatic, and the other has a lot of mafia scruples. not surprisingly, the pragmatic player suggested I suck it up and play on, leaving my fate in the hands of the other players. The scrupulous one thought I should at the very least quit the game and left it to the GM to find a sub.

I took the pragmatic player's advice, because even though I very much wanted to make a statement, I couldn't put a statement ahead of my team.

By my own fmistakes and misconceptions, I was tested to destruction in this game, and by my own measure I failed. And succeeded.

I didn't want to delve into this at the time, because I was aware that I might not be talking to a town player, and the reasons for bringing up the wifom about my scary-scary scum game might not be protown.

anyway I want to tighten up my town game and be a more effective player. You may see some changes in my play in the next few games as I experiment and see what I can figure out.

[Magicziggy]

Ok. Here's my take.

I certainly didn't give charlou's posts the attention they deserved. I walked into a game with it's plan to bus my role. Seemed logical. Kind of spiraled out of control from there.

Feck gave a very clear indication that he was a target by talking about knowing which side he was on. I'm glad I picked that.

UT was a bit more of a lucky shot. Not having had an opportunity to post on day 1 I narrowed down to him as most likely.

I didn't agree with the decisions to fake claim. However I wasn't around to argue the point and will always go with the flow. The mass out would have been terminal but we did then nail the disguise viewer and should have been back in the game.

I would never have picked zigmen as the third target. However I think the timing of his out was good for town.

You can see from our wb that I believed that targets = town specials. And that there were no others, ie no bodyguards. Taking out ani was simply to do the expected. Plus it gave zigmen a chance to view me. Whether to keep zigmen or not after that was a toss up. In the end I thought that it may leave irre and Linus with enough of a shadow to get them lynched.

I was pessimistic for obvious reasons but enjoyed the challenge of trying to stay alive. I seriously thought that oblivion may have been on our side towards the end. Ie a traitor. I couldn't understand why she hesitated about voting me.

On the strategic godkill situation, I think it should be spelled out beforehand. It's the cynical foul in footy that leads to a straight red.

Special mentions. Amok was very astute. Definitely towns biggest asset. Gib also has a very disconcerting playing style if you are scum and he's town. I'll look forward to seeing him translate that to a scum role. I'm hazy as to how it's worked out in the past.

Linus did everything right except the seer cover scheme. That won't work.

Irre's suggestion to mass claim was astute and would have been beneficial to town at any stage. Coming so early it was seen as scummy. I think the problem is that many town players want to play a very cagey game at the start. It needed to wait until it did. I trolley tracked irre at the end because I had very few options. I am seriously not going to spend hours and hours on mafia. I'll pass on the next one or two games for that reason.

Thanks again gonzo.

[Magicziggy]

Oh, and to Matt, please play a game through here before GMing. I think it will give us all a little more confidence in you. Being clueless in the game itself is not a problem.

[MattShizzle]

I've played plenty of games on TR and a few on RnR before that.