Boxer Vs. Briefs Mafia

[higgs2]

When I jumped it was 3 to one morticia leading. I don't normally move to "even up" bw's, but in this case we wanted to pressure 2 quiet people. I don't know why that monoke thing got going so fast.

[Feck]

A FOS would have done .... both of you ! and who started the Mono one ?

[oblivion]

Does gall play at rational skepticism? Because they inexplicably have an extreme aversion to lynching day one. Damndest thing I've ever seen.

The other thing to note today is that her outrage over being fosed has some heat behind it and feels genuine to me.

Not that scum can't be genuinely outraged over a FoS, but she is coming off more townish to me today.

And that leaves me kind of up in the air about who looks scummy.

Starting to wonder a bit about Ghat.

[higgs2]

An FOS would not have done.

[oblivion]

A FOS would have done .... both of you ! and who started the Mono one ?

In my opinion, no it wouldn't have done as well. Players ignore foses all the time, especially when there's a well established bandwagon on another player.

Charlou started the Mononoke bandwagon.

[Gallstones]

There is no reason to think that if oblivion is scum she is the don at this point. If she has been viewed town I imagine the seer will keep quiet so as not to inadvertantly out her/him self. I would trust a town view on her now a lot more than one on her several days from now.

Gall, your description of losing Charlou as a coup is different. A coup for whom? Were you surprised that she was a scum kill?

A coup for scum and no I was not surprised. Who would be?

[oblivion]

So after all this does anyone have an opinion about totals? He hasn't posted enough for me to be able to tell. It would be remarkable to have picked scum with our first two bw's, but not unheard of.

ghat, what is the deal with you and gall?

feck, do you have any thoughts? What is your sense about oblivion?

MMMM Oblivion has been wrong with every post ,maybe an off day or maybe not on our side ? the way lots of people jumped at the chance to lynch totals rather than morticia rings alarm bells .Why as the wagon was started on morticia would certain people then go and start a wagon on Totals ? there was no good reason to suspect Totals more than Morticia ? would some one like to check if it was the same people who then changed their votes to charlou ? (yeah I know I'm guilty there too ,but I was asleep when she had to out herself ). If we have a seer then I would love for Oblivion to be viewed (that's why I voted her for Mayor ).

Wait a minute. The bolded is a pretty strong statement. Care to back that up?

[higgs2]

Here are some thoughts, just dashed off, comments?

Totals - still low contributer

Feck at this point seems pro town but his contention that fos's are better than lynch votes is weird. Not paying close attn. I'm guessing re the different bw's.

Gall some scumminess but could be due to inexperience. Pretty emotional, normal?

Denny I don't have much on denny I' need to research this more

Ghat suspicious because of link with gall, blames misses on crying kids which is a pattern (I realize it is also possibly a rl pattern but had to mention it)

Normal a cheery "hi ho, back later" so who knows

Oblivion playing a pro town game, which she attempts to do no matter what role she has

[Gallstones]

Here are the posts Gallstones made that bothered me yesterday:

I think the day ends in 2 hours, going by when the day started. It will be 2200 my time. I have ton head out now for a couple hours. Do we need to lynch someone today? How about we not and wait until some night actions have gone on and we have some info?

Terrible advice for town. The only situation in which passing up a lynch benefits town is at a 4-1 endgame. Mafiascum.net article: http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=No_lynch

I am just doing this for the fun of it, it is not an obsession and I don't have the attention span to read and study how to play the game.

It has been argued that in the early stages of the game, if it is known that the Mafia has fewer members than the town, it can be a valid tactic, for those with a good knowledge of math at least, to let the night phase go and handle investigations. For example, if it is known that there are 15 Town and 4 Mafia, the odds of lynching a townie on day one with limited information are much higher, therefore giving an extra kill to the Mafia. However, this is not the case. Voting No Lynch in the early game causes the town to lose one possible lynch, so instead of having 3 chances to find the mafia, they only have 2 chances.

Inexperienced town players sometimes suggest no lynch on day 1. I'm under the impression that Gallstones has some experience at this game.

Yes, some. I do this for fun. I don't like making decisions based on guesses and no information. You criticized me for doing that, then when you gave me a reason for voting for a quiet player you criticized me for that too.

This one just seemed like a weird reaction, like she didn't want to be mayor but didn't want to be too negative about it:

Not sure when today ends so for now:

Vote Gallstones

Vote Feck

Why Gallstones for mayor?

Feck is something of a default vote at Ratz. Playing it safe?

I thought that Gall does not have alot of input most times and if se were to be viewed it may weed out a scum player early without them hanging on till the end. Whaddya think? good idea?

Feck seems to be quiet on the past few games and I was dead wrong about him last game.

Unvote Feck

Do what y'all think best.

Then she discouraged day 1 lynch again. It was after this post that I fosed her because "hating the crapshoot" is a form of "I'm afraid we'll lynch town so I don't want to vote", etc.:

I just set up my patented spreadsheet.

People who have not lynchvoted:
totals, morticia, gallstones, Charlou, Normal

People who have not mayorvoted:
totals, feck, mononoke, morticia, ghat, oblivion

That means totals and morticia have not committed votes of any sort. I think they both made one post so far.

I really hate voting to lynch on day one as it is a crapshoot. I prefer to wait for some information to come out first.

Later in the day 1 thread she comes off very defensive. she seemed more worried about defending against some foses than about the craziness going on with Charlou's out and the vote mania that set off.

All of this could be more about the environments where she usually plays mafia than about her alignment, though. And this is the first game I've played with her, so I'd like to hear from people who have played more games with her.

Why should I want to be Mayor? I didn't see anybody else who was voted on getting all excited with self promotion.
It was too early to know what was the right thing.

If I allow the suspicions to be repeatedly aired and say nothing I am hiding and that is a tell. If I defend myself that is a tell.
Seems like I'm being steamrolled. Only scum would play that aggressive on a player when there is no evidence that the alleged suspicion has any merit. My guilt is being manufactured. I am not guilty. It is a psychological manipulation to get me lynched or killed and reduce the numbers of town players. Only scum would play that.

[oblivion]

Gallstones, I've sledged you - I've put pressure on you to see what you say in response. It's one of the ways players get enough information to have a read on another player's alignment.

I know that I tend to play a lot more aggressively than most Ratz players, and I'm working on ratcheting it back a bit, but it's how I've learned to play and it's been working for me in other games for over a year. It's second nature.

[oblivion]

Also, most players don't want to be mayor. If they're scum, they're likely to be viewed early. If they are town they are likely to be NKed early. Looking eager to be mayor makes people think the player is a don. Looking reluctant to be mayor makes people think the player is vanilla scum.

That's why I don't express an opinion when mayor voted no matter what my role.

[Feck]

So after all this does anyone have an opinion about totals? He hasn't posted enough for me to be able to tell. It would be remarkable to have picked scum with our first two bw's, but not unheard of.

ghat, what is the deal with you and gall?

feck, do you have any thoughts? What is your sense about oblivion?

MMMM Oblivion has been wrong with every post ,maybe an off day or maybe not on our side ? the way lots of people jumped at the chance to lynch totals rather than morticia rings alarm bells .Why as the wagon was started on morticia would certain people then go and start a wagon on Totals ? there was no good reason to suspect Totals more than Morticia ? would some one like to check if it was the same people who then changed their votes to charlou ? (yeah I know I'm guilty there too ,but I was asleep when she had to out herself ). If we have a seer then I would love for Oblivion to be viewed (that's why I voted her for Mayor ).

Wait a minute. The bolded is a pretty strong statement. Care to back that up?

Yes!!!! you start a band wagon on Totals and then say a competing bandwagon to the one on morticia is a bad idea , that's after voting higgs and before you vote charlou Then you reinforce your vote on charlou for changing her mind and go back to vote totals (I think i missed out some fossing of ghat ). then you voted Gallstones and changed then I think you settled on Mono . Seems the ONLY person you did not vote for was the one we know was scum .

Aren't you the one that says towns job is to be clear and scums job is to confuse ?

[oblivion]

Here are some thoughts, just dashed off, comments?

Totals - still low contributer

Feck at this point seems pro town but his contention that fos's are better than lynch votes is weird. Not paying close attn. I'm guessing re the different bw's.

Gall some scumminess but could be due to inexperience. Pretty emotional, normal?

Denny I don't have much on denny I' need to research this more

Ghat suspicious because of link with gall, blames misses on crying kids which is a pattern (I realize it is also possibly a rl pattern but had to mention it)

Normal a cheery "hi ho, back later" so who knows

Oblivion playing a pro town game, which she attempts to do no matter what role she has

Totals got active later in the day yesterday. Lets see how today goes.

Feck I'm not so sure about. His FoSes have a smarmy edge to them. I want to read a game or two when he was scum and see if there are similarities.

Gall is off my likely scum list for now based on her posts in today's thread and your comment about her playing at RatSkeps. I remember that being mentioned in the tea party game.

Denny is a question mark.

Normal is hard for me to read. Right now, I don't have basis for suspicion, but I want to reread his posts from yesterday.

higgs is playing more actively and digging for answers. But, she too knows how to look protown when she's scum.

[oblivion]

So after all this does anyone have an opinion about totals? He hasn't posted enough for me to be able to tell. It would be remarkable to have picked scum with our first two bw's, but not unheard of.

ghat, what is the deal with you and gall?

feck, do you have any thoughts? What is your sense about oblivion?

MMMM Oblivion has been wrong with every post ,maybe an off day or maybe not on our side ? the way lots of people jumped at the chance to lynch totals rather than morticia rings alarm bells .Why as the wagon was started on morticia would certain people then go and start a wagon on Totals ? there was no good reason to suspect Totals more than Morticia ? would some one like to check if it was the same people who then changed their votes to charlou ? (yeah I know I'm guilty there too ,but I was asleep when she had to out herself ). If we have a seer then I would love for Oblivion to be viewed (that's why I voted her for Mayor ).

Wait a minute. The bolded is a pretty strong statement. Care to back that up?

Yes!!!! you start a band wagon on Totals and then say a competing bandwagon to the one on morticia is a bad idea , that's after voting higgs and before you vote charlou Then you reinforce your vote on charlou for changing her mind and go back to vote totals (I think i missed out some fossing of ghat ). then you voted Gallstones and changed then I think you settled on Mono . Seems the ONLY person you did not vote for was the one we know was scum .

Aren't you the one that says towns job is to be clear and scums job is to confuse ?

No, I did not say that a competing bandwagon was a bad idea, if what you are talking about was my comment to Gallstones yesterday. Gallstones said that Charlou isn't stupid or careless and then voted for totals. This was in response to my post about Charlou's posts being low-content. I thought "not stupid or careless" was a strange justification for not voting Charlou. It had nothing to do with her voting for totals.

I was very, very wrong about Charlou. That does not make all my posts wrong. Nor does it make all my votes wrong. We'll learn how wrong my other votes were as the game goes on.

[oblivion]

Feck is coming off pretty aggressive here. That's not something I remember about his town game. Time to go dig through some past games.