News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

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News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by FBM » Fri Jan 01, 2010 1:53 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8435320.stm
'Lifeless' prion proteins are 'capable of evolution'
Scientists have shown for the first time that "lifeless" prion proteins, devoid of all genetic material, can evolve just like higher forms of life.

The Scripps Research Institute in the US says the prions can change to suit their environment and go on to develop drug resistance.

Prions are associated with 20 different brain diseases in humans and animals.

The scientists say their work suggests new approaches might be necessary to develop therapies for these diseases.

In the study, published in the journal Science, the scientists transferred prion populations from brain cells to other cells in culture and observed the prions that adapted to the new cellular environment out-competed their brain-adapted counterparts.

When returned to the brain cells, the brain-adapted prions again took over the population.

Charles Weissmann, head of Scripps Florida's department of infectology who led the study, said: "On the face of it, you have exactly the same process of mutation and adaptive change in prions as you see in viruses.

This is a timely reminder that prion concerns are not going away and that controls to stop abnormal prions being transmitted to humans through the food system or through blood transfusions must be vigorously maintained

Professor John Collinge, Medical Research Council Prion Unit
"This means that this pattern of Darwinian evolution appears to be universally active.

"In viruses, mutation is linked to changes in nucleic acid sequence that leads to resistance.

"Now, this adaptability has moved one level down- to prions and protein folding - and it's clear that you do not need nucleic acid (DNA or RNA) for the process of evolution."

Mammalian cells normally produce cellular prion protein or PrPC.

During infections, such as the human form of mad cow disease known as vCJD, abnormal or misfolded proteins convert the normal host prion protein into its toxic form by changing its conformation or shape.

"It was generally thought that once cellular prion protein was converted into the abnormal form, there was no further change", Mr Weissmann said.

"But there have been hints that something was happening.

"When you transmit prions from sheep to mice, they become more virulent over time.

PRION DISEASES
Human prion diseases such as Creutzfeldt Jakob disease (CJD) can arise sporadically, be acquired by infection or be inherited because of a mutant gene coding for the prion protein
They are relatively rare but have occurred in epidemic form in Papua New Guinea as a result of brain cannibalism
Animal prion diseases include scrapie in sheep and goats, chronic wasting disease in deer and elk and transmissible mink encephalopathy
Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) first appeared in UK in mid-1980s
It is estimated that more than two million UK cattle were infected
Variant CJD (vCJD) caused by the same prion strain as BSE was first recognised in the mid-1990s
"Now we know that the abnormal prions replicate, and create variants, perhaps at a low level initially.

"But once they are transferred to a new host, natural selection will eventually choose the more virulent and aggressive variants."

Professor John Collinge, of the Medical Research Council's (MRC) Prion Unit, described the research as exciting confirmation of a hypothesis that he had proposed two years ago, that there could be a "cloud" or whole array of prion proteins in the body.

He called it the cloud hypothesis.

He said: "The prion protein is not a clone, it is a quasi-species that can create different protein strains even in the same animal.

"The abnormal prion proteins multiply by converting normal prion proteins.

"The implication of Charles Weissmann's work is that it would be better to cut off that supply of normal prion proteins rather than risk the abnormal prion adapting to a drug and evolving into a new more virulent form.

"You would do this by trying to block the sites on the normal prion protein that the abnormal form locks on to to do its conversion.

"We know there is an antibody that can do this in mice and the Medical Research Council's Prion Unit have managed to engineer a human antibody to do this.

Chemical libraries

"It is currently undergoing safety tests and we hope to move to clinical trials by the end of 2011"

Professor Collinge said the MRC was also trying to find more conventional chemical compounds to do this and has been collaborating with the chemical company GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).

He said: "They have given us access to their chemical libraries, which contain millions of compounds, and we have already identified some that may work well.

"This is a timely reminder that prion concerns are not going away and that controls to stop abnormal prions being transmitted to humans through the food system or through blood transfusions must be vigorously maintained."
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by devogue » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:24 pm

So is it possible that abiogenesis in the right conditions wasn't a question of probability, but inevitability?

Wow.

Cali!!!!!

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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by FBM » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:38 pm

Devogue wrote:So is it possible that abiogenesis in the right conditions wasn't a question of probability, but inevitability?

Wow.

Cali!!!!!
Shit. You've already thought this out further than I have. :think:

Yes, I echo: Cali!!!!!!!!! We needs yah, bruh!!
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by Animavore » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:53 pm

I was saying this for years.



:shifty:
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by FBM » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:55 pm

Animavore wrote:I was saying this for years.



:shifty:
You must be tired by now. :mrgreen:
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by Animavore » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:57 pm

:hehe: I only read the first sentence. I'm in bits today. Anything more than a couple of sentences is hard to read.
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by FBM » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:05 pm

Animavore wrote::hehe: I only read the first sentence. I'm in bits today. Anything more than a couple of sentences is hard to read.
Meh. The title and one sentence is plenty to get the main idea: DNA and RNA aren't the only ways for natural selection to happen. 8-)
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:12 pm

I was about to post this. You beat me to it. :lay:

There has been speculation about evolution in simpler self-replicating molecules as a step towards the development of RNA/DNA during the early emergence of life for a long while. Actually seeing it still happening today is stunning in its implications. :tup:
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by Rum » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:42 pm

Is it valid to ask why prions have not developed into more complex organisms? Probably showing my ignorance, but I am interested!

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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:20 am

Rum wrote:Is it valid to ask why prions have not developed into more complex organisms? Probably showing my ignorance, but I am interested!
One theory is that they did... into us! It is the old creotard question, if we evolved from prions, why are there still prions?
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by JimC » Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:04 am

RD always maintained that replication, with inherant variability in the efficiency of that replication, was the key requirement for any form of evolution by natural selection.

Prions are an odd-ball case of this process, confined to a limited form of evolution within an organism, and not destined for a larger scale...
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by FBM » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:03 am

JimC wrote:RD always maintained that replication, with inherant variability in the efficiency of that replication, was the key requirement for any form of evolution by natural selection.

Prions are an odd-ball case of this process, confined to a limited form of evolution within an organism, and not destined for a larger scale...
I have to admit that my understanding of the issue is scanty, but this raises a couple of questions for me. First, about the question of how we distinguish between living and non-living matter. Second, about what role this sort of inanimate replication process may have played in abiogenesis in the first place. That is, though prions inhabit living tissue now, something like prions may have developed in the primordial soup and served as a starting point for more complex forms that evolved RNA and later, DNA. :eddy:
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:23 am

The borderline between living and non-living matter is not at all clear.

Is a virus 'alive'? To our minds, given as they are to see purpose and motivation in everything, they certainly appear to be, but when examined closely, they perform no actions that are not purely determined by the chemicals from which they are composed and their interaction with their surroundings (particularly the cells of more complex organisms.) But isn't this true of all living things? Don't we all act the way that we do simply because of the chemicals of which we are composed and those around us? Just because we can 'think', 'feel' and 'reason' doesn't really mean a great deal. It is just chemicals interacting, albeit in a far more complex way than the simple proteins and RNA of a virus.

We can already construct 'artificial' chromosomes by combining short sections of DNA or RNA into a predetermined sequence in the laboratory. In theory, we could build our own viral RNA from inanimate matter, inject it into a suitable cell and watch it reproduce and multiply! Talk about playing god. :tea:
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by FBM » Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:42 am

Yup. Fascinating, but we'd have to find a way to silence the religious elements. I imagine their influence has a lot to do with why we haven't already done it.

We could probably engineer an organism that has the single function of sequestering carbon from the atmosphere, but is otherwise inactive. :eddy:
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Re: News flash! Neither DNA nor RNA required for evolution.

Post by JimC » Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:02 am

notFBM wrote:
JimC wrote:RD always maintained that replication, with inherant variability in the efficiency of that replication, was the key requirement for any form of evolution by natural selection.

Prions are an odd-ball case of this process, confined to a limited form of evolution within an organism, and not destined for a larger scale...
I have to admit that my understanding of the issue is scanty, but this raises a couple of questions for me. First, about the question of how we distinguish between living and non-living matter. Second, about what role this sort of inanimate replication process may have played in abiogenesis in the first place. That is, though prions inhabit living tissue now, something like prions may have developed in the primordial soup and served as a starting point for more complex forms that evolved RNA and later, DNA. :eddy:
As to the first, replication is the key, but there are gradations. Most organisms can replicate independently, which is the vital clear-cut property of life, but viruses are parasitically dependent on pre-existing cell metabolisms to do so. They still clearly make the cut for being defined as life, at least partly because they exist as separate, discrete structures which go through generations of reproduction without an end in sight...

Prions, however, are more an autocatalytic process, where the presence of a particular folding structure triggers other proteins to adopt that (usually aberrant) structure. The article indicates that there is potential variation in this structure, and potentially winners and losers in a "population" of competing prion structures; hence the natural selection analogy. However, in their current incarnation, it is difficult to describe a prion as an independent living entity...

As to the second, I certainly agree that it is possible, and that the ability of proteins to trigger a cascade of alternate folding structues could be a component in the ratchet effect which drove abiogenesis...
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