Evolution for fundamentalists

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Tero
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:12 pm

RK also has his own Gaia theory:
Okay... Here's a start on discussing the intelligent earth hypothesis. Nevertheless, I am interested in many more subjects here other than this one hypothesis. So if either of you pulls out of the discussion, I will most likely leave it for some time again, too. I may even quickly move on at such a juncture. And one of you may not get the kind, level, or degree of notice you desire. So be forewarned: I may pull out quickly and without remedy here if either of you two leave this subject, because my area of active research now is scientific and religious rhetoric. In graduate schools, most recently, my primary area of interest was anthropological and general scientific methods. This matter is peripheral to those areas of concern, and may even be only incidental to my general vision for this debate.

In the intelligent-earth hypothesis as I conceive of it, the following are considered true:

ECOLOGY = interfunctional, interactive, adaptive intelligence (sensory feedback, novel and established response, and general vector-establishment) approach to change

ENVIRONMENT = coarse, factor-reductive, unidirectional evolutionist (gross-increment, accident-based, and sampling-error randomized, purely historic) approach to change.

I include Earth's socio-ecology, prehistory/history, and biological life in my definition of an intelligent earth. Evolution proponents may think I am referring only to its inanimate environmental aspects. So I need to add that at first, too. If you think that invalid, we may not get very far or may only stay on that issue.
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Tero
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:20 am

Fundamentalist has confusion with terms
>>evolution has never been verified by an independent
>>experiment [HorsesRearEnd]

>>You are a liar:
>> http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html [Bill M.]

>>Speciation has been observed.
>>And that's a fact, but no new life forms!!!!!! [Doctor]

How is "speciation" different from "new life form"?
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:28 am

Tero wrote:Fundamentalist has confusion with terms
>>evolution has never been verified by an independent
>>experiment [HorsesRearEnd]

>>You are a liar:
>> http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA202.html [Bill M.]

>>Speciation has been observed.
>>And that's a fact, but no new life forms!!!!!! [Doctor]

How is "speciation" different from "new life form"?
Being ignorant of the topic means being easily confused about the facts.
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:05 pm

http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:02 am

Evangelicals will win! Resistance is futile
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:06 am

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Tero
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:07 am

LOL
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:41 am

http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
coronavirus worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

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Tero
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:10 am

http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
coronavirus worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:32 pm

Some ammo against creationists
Press Release
****

Biochemist Douglas Theobald confirms Darwin's theory of universal common ancestry

"More than 150 years ago, Charles Darwin proposed the theory of universal common ancestry (UCA), linking all forms of life by a shared genetic heritage from single-celled microorganisms to humans. Until now, the theory that makes ladybugs, oak trees, champagne yeast and humans distant relatives has remained beyond the scope of a formal test. This week, a Brandeis biochemist reports in Nature the results of the first large-scale, quantitative test of the famous theory that underpins modern evolutionary biology.
The results of the study confirm that Darwin had it right all along. In his 1859 book, "On the Origin of Species," the British naturalist proposed that, "all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial form." Over the last century and a half, qualitative evidence for this theory has steadily grown, in the numerous, surprising transitional forms found in the fossil record, for example, and in the identification of sweeping fundamental biological similarities at the molecular level.
...Harnessing powerful computational tools and applying Bayesian statistics, Theobald found that the evidence overwhelmingly supports UCA, regardless of horizontal gene transfer or multiple origins of life. Theobald said UCA is millions of times more probable than any theory of multiple independent ancestries.

...While other scientists have previously examined common ancestry more narrowly, for example, among only vertebrates, Theobald is the first to formally test Darwin's theory across all three domains of life. The three domains include diverse life forms such as the Eukarya (organisms, including humans, yeast, and plants, whose cells have a DNA-containing nucleus) as well as Bacteria and Archaea (two distinct groups of unicellular microorganisms whose DNA floats around in the cell instead of in a nucleus)...."
http://www.brandeis.edu/now/2010/may/UC ... lease.html
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Gerald McGrew
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:35 pm

Tero,

It's fun to read through this thread and see your "experiences" with creationists. I started debating creationists over 10 years ago, and have since largely stopped actively seeking out such debates (I will engage when an opportunity arises at times). One particular creationist and I have a looooooooong history of exactly what you describe, i.e. him making demands, me providing the data, him ignoring it, and him making more demands (and after a while, repeating old demands). Recently, I posted the following to him after he posted yet another demand...
This is what keeps me coming back from time to time. It's the amazing oddity of seeing a person who's had paper after paper both provided and explained to him for around a decade claim that the same person who did all that has failed to provide evidence. It's seeing the person who's had the specific terms explained to him countless times by countless people over the course of many years, still make the error of demanding "proof" (instead of "evidence"). It's seeing the person who's had their sources exposed as habitual, pathological liars by multiple people over the course of many years, continue to go back to those sources apparently oblivious to their discredited state.

For me, this stopped being about evolution, creationism, or science a long time ago. Instead, this is about observing delusion firsthand. A few years ago I read a paper about people who, the more you directly show them that they're totally wrong on a subject, the deeper and harder they'll dig in to their position. I've always been somewhat of a student of human behavior, and being able to see this phenomenon in real time is fascinating. Intuitively I think to myself, "No way anyone is like that. Surely if someone says X doesn't exist, once you show them several examples of X, they'll stop saying it doesn't exist." Yet, exactly as the paper described, internet creationists regularly say things like "transitional fossils don't exist", and the more examples of transitional fossils you show them, the louder and more fervently they repeat "transitional fossils don't exist".

I don't know what it is, but it absolutely captivates me.
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:39 pm

Gerald, are you Facebook? It's happy hunting ground for believers. One told me that I shouldn't put my faith in science. Then in the next sentence, "The Bible is solidly based in science!" :fp:
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:54 pm

Gawdzilla,

I recently quit FB. Once I started seeing "So and so likes Lowes/Best Buy/Home Depot/whatever" over and over and over, and then started hearing that I apparently really "like" Target and Walmart, I deleted my account.

One of my favorite responses to a creationist telling me what the science is, is to ask "How do you know what the science says? What scientific journals do you read? What conferences do you attend? What scientific books have you read?"

I have yet to get an answer from any creationist. :bored:
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.

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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:04 pm

Ad blocker is your friend, Gerald.

As for the science, they'll lie as needed.
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Re: Evolution for fundamentalists

Post by Tero » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:13 pm

http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
coronavirus worldometer https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh!

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