this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by leo-rcc » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:43 pm

Fred Kite wrote: out of curiosity, do you often win arguments by being facetious and sarcastic?
Is it working for you?
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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Fred Kite » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:43 pm

Charlou wrote:
Fred Kite wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Fred Kite wrote:I fail to see how all this distortion and twisting of things proves anything other than Richard Dawkins was totally right to rejig the forum and weed out people who can't have a rational discussion.
Maybe so but, not the way he did it. By destroying loads of science articles that people spent ages compiling and silencing anyone who spoke against the new proposals and blocking people from being able to contact each other.
If you can't see what the problem is with that I can't help you.

I'm practically neutral on this . A scan through my posts shows that I only asked a few questions about what was going on. My posts and RD.net were mostly just banter and asking questions on topics I was interested in and learning off scientists and philosophers so besides a few articles I had book-marked to read later I haven't lost much but I can still feel for the people who defended Dawkins and evolution, constantly, against creationists mainly and other anti-science people with well written and rigorous articles.
Also a lot of people helped Dawkins with research for books on the forum and he just pulls the plug totally causing disarray instead of discussing with the mods the best way to do a transition. Ok this is mainly Josh's fault from what we can tell at the moment but how and ever what was done was wrong and if you can't see that well then I'm just going to leave it at that. i am not the argumentative type.
Why are you so obsessed with who has done wrong? Why are you so obsessed with digging up every little thing, like a gossip columnist and repeating it ad infinitum as if that will make it more true?

Why are you twisting things to portray a nasty element, e.g. "[josh/richard] destroying loads of science articles that people spent ages compiling"? Do you honestly think that they would deliberately destroy interesting data? or do you think some great posts happened to be lost, inadvertently, when a profile was deleted?

Let me repeat again - IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR WHO IS WRONG OR WHO DID WHAT - NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE VICIOUS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS on RICHARD and HIS TEAM.

I'm not interested in discussing who did what, because it doesn't really matter.....the source of the vitriol is from people pissed off because they spent so much time on the forum, they couldn't deal with the sudden disruption to their daily routine. That has nothing to do with who did what and everything to do with the same sort of obsessive/addictive behaviour that religion thrives upon.

You can kid yourself all you like that you are pissed off with josh, or richard or josh's assistants, whatever, that's your choice. But I would suggest that you are deluding yourself.

Give it a week or two, as people settle into their new routines on the new dawkins-like forum on rational sceptisicm and you will see a few of them realise that they totally over reacted and were caught up in the heat of the moment.
Why are all your opinions (and that's all they are) couched in so much defensive/agressive hostility? You claim to hold a rational position? I don't see it, neither in your opinions nor in your demeanor.

Regarding your demeanor, please read the rationalia guidelines and familiarise yourself with our play nice concept. You're a guest on our forum - treat our members with civility or your account will be suspended.

I don't think i'll be hanging around here Charlou. but thanks anyway. it's too much like the old richard dawkins forum.

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by wtargentina » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:45 pm

Fred - you are attacking a huge number of people with your sweeping statements - 85,000 members wasn't it? Only a handful called Josh a nasty name - and if the events outlined by a large number of people I would normally trust are correct then they are pretty much justified in doing so.

And you are taken aback that some people might get a tad upset at losing thousand of hours of work, being treated like badly behaved children and basically being told to piss off without the basic courtesy of contacting them directly? I'm just surprised that there isn't a mob descending with flaming torches and pitch forks. :mob:

Fred you are currently backing the wrong horse - one that's only good for glue.

Fred Kite

Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Fred Kite » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:58 pm

wtargentina wrote:Fred - you are attacking a huge number of people with your sweeping statements - 85,000 members wasn't it? Only a handful called Josh a nasty name - and if the events outlined by a large number of people I would normally trust are correct then they are pretty much justified in doing so.

And you are taken aback that some people might get a tad upset at losing thousand of hours of work, being treated like badly behaved children and basically being told to piss off without the basic courtesy of contacting them directly? I'm just surprised that there isn't a mob descending with flaming torches and pitch forks. :mob:

Fred you are currently backing the wrong horse - one that's only good for glue.

Here we go again. Why are you twisting what I've said?

Why can't you have a rational discussion.

I NEVER attacked the 85,000 members of the richard dawkins forum.

I agreed with my friend who said this:


...it's fascinating, more from an anthropological point of view than a psychological point of view because you're dealing with a group of people here but there is clearly some symptoms of aspergers being displayed in the comments on the guardian and the times. Richard and his team needs to tread very carefully now. The reaction is so exceptionally personal and vicious it suggests that it doesn't matter now who was right and who was wrong....it appears to me that the source of the anger is because many of these people became addicted/obsessed with the forum and spent a huge amount of time there. That's not Dawkins' fault but there are parallels with how some people get obsessed with religion.....in my opinion he is doing the right thing to shut it down and change it to be fully moderated....

I have emboldened the text to help you.

I'm not taken aback by people acting irrationally...I'm familiar with the gang mentality from the Richard Dawkins forum. I'm dismayed that they claim to be and are being presented as the "largest online atheist community". It just offers another excuse for those to treat atheism as a dirty word when in truth, it's just a small minority directing vicious and personal attacks on richard dawkins & josh timonen.

However, I sense the same sort of gang mentality here.....and it's making me angry, so I think I'll leave you guys to it. I've said my piece.

the old forum is gone. stop worrying and enjoy our life.
Last edited by Fred Kite on Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Feck » Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:59 pm

Fred Kite wrote:
Charlou wrote:
Fred Kite wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Fred Kite wrote:I fail to see how all this distortion and twisting of things proves anything other than Richard Dawkins was totally right to rejig the forum and weed out people who can't have a rational discussion.
Maybe so but, not the way he did it. By destroying loads of science articles that people spent ages compiling and silencing anyone who spoke against the new proposals and blocking people from being able to contact each other.
If you can't see what the problem is with that I can't help you.

I'm practically neutral on this . A scan through my posts shows that I only asked a few questions about what was going on. My posts and RD.net were mostly just banter and asking questions on topics I was interested in and learning off scientists and philosophers so besides a few articles I had book-marked to read later I haven't lost much but I can still feel for the people who defended Dawkins and evolution, constantly, against creationists mainly and other anti-science people with well written and rigorous articles.
Also a lot of people helped Dawkins with research for books on the forum and he just pulls the plug totally causing disarray instead of discussing with the mods the best way to do a transition. Ok this is mainly Josh's fault from what we can tell at the moment but how and ever what was done was wrong and if you can't see that well then I'm just going to leave it at that. i am not the argumentative type.
Why are you so obsessed with who has done wrong? Why are you so obsessed with digging up every little thing, like a gossip columnist and repeating it ad infinitum as if that will make it more true?

Why are you twisting things to portray a nasty element, e.g. "[josh/richard] destroying loads of science articles that people spent ages compiling"? Do you honestly think that they would deliberately destroy interesting data? or do you think some great posts happened to be lost, inadvertently, when a profile was deleted?

Let me repeat again - IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS RIGHT OR WHO IS WRONG OR WHO DID WHAT - NOTHING JUSTIFIES THE VICIOUS AND PERSONAL ATTACKS on RICHARD and HIS TEAM.

I'm not interested in discussing who did what, because it doesn't really matter.....the source of the vitriol is from people pissed off because they spent so much time on the forum, they couldn't deal with the sudden disruption to their daily routine. That has nothing to do with who did what and everything to do with the same sort of obsessive/addictive behaviour that religion thrives upon.

You can kid yourself all you like that you are pissed off with josh, or richard or josh's assistants, whatever, that's your choice. But I would suggest that you are deluding yourself.

Give it a week or two, as people settle into their new routines on the new dawkins-like forum on rational sceptisicm and you will see a few of them realise that they totally over reacted and were caught up in the heat of the moment.
Why are all your opinions (and that's all they are) couched in so much defensive/agressive hostility? You claim to hold a rational position? I don't see it, neither in your opinions nor in your demeanor.

Regarding your demeanor, please read the rationalia guidelines and familiarise yourself with our play nice concept. You're a guest on our forum - treat our members with civility or your account will be suspended.

I don't think i'll be hanging around here Charlou. but thanks anyway. it's too much like the old richard dawkins forum.
It may seem that way if you just look at recent posts but trust me this is a VERY different place .We had a close knit community of friends that was more than happy to push out a life boat to Thousands of wounded hurt and lost people and give them the space they need to vent and reorganise .
Snide comments that this place is like RDF not only show your ignorance but insult lots of my friends .......

Just remember you got to post here you didn't have to submit anything you said for approval a privilege you seem happy to see denied to 85,000 RDF members.

oh just another little point hosting your ill informed opinions costs us money please make a contribution !
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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Peter Brown » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:00 pm

I see where you're going with the pearl harbour idea, but, I would say that's self aggrandisement of a very worrying degree and probably a variation of godwins law could be applied to your argument.
No I just figured you might have heard of Pearl Harbour if you’re an American, you probably would not heard about the little old lady who called the evictors names when the bank tossed her out of her home. The little old lady would not have aspergers, an addiction or an obsession either. Just a reaction to an action she did not like.
and aren't really angry with the owner of the site making changes (that would be completely irrational) to his own site, they are really angry with the (perceived) disruption this will have on their lives.
At first there wasn’t that much anger or abuse at all, just an attempt to say the imposed changes were not very well liked. The reaction by the tech crew was more irrational, and Dawkins message, well one can understand a manager supporting his team, or wanting changes to his site. But casting blame and calling names on the victims is a poor way to go about it. Richard made a mistake in doing that and the victims actually deserve an apology for his unwarranted blanket accusations.
I'm glad to see there's a new forum springing up. They've even used the same template as the richard dawkins forum. After a few days, hopefully those spouting vicious and personal attacks on Richard and his team will get over it and get obsessed with that forum.
Richard had a winning formula in his old site, but he dropped the ball and so others will indeed pick it up. As for his new forum, it will be no more than a magazine to promote the Dawkin, or more likely the Josh (if he is editor’s) view. Sad really. If he wanted Carlin 7 rules, or no mental theories or pre watershed environment, all he had to do is ask the former volunteer mods to act accordingly or resign in good faith.

Fred Kite

Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Fred Kite » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:03 pm

Feck wrote:
I don't think i'll be hanging around here Charlou. but thanks anyway. it's too much like the old richard dawkins forum.
It may seem that way if you just look at recent posts but trust me this is a VERY different place .We had a close knit community of friends that was more than happy to push out a life boat to Thousands of wounded hurt and lost people and give them the space they need to vent and reorganise .
Snide comments that this place is like RDF not only show your ignorance but insult lots of my friends .......

Just remember you got to post here you didn't have to submit anything you said for approval a privilege you seem happy to see denied to 85,000 RDF members.

oh just another little point hosting your ill informed opinions costs us money please make a contribution !
wow.....so let me get this straight. You are delighted to host doctored photographs with slanderous comments suggesting that josh is richard dawkins illegitimate son via an affair with someone called trixie and you are busting my balls for trying to reason against the vicious and personal attacks on richard dawkins?

I'll get my coat.

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:06 pm

Fred Kite wrote:
Feck wrote:
I don't think i'll be hanging around here Charlou. but thanks anyway. it's too much like the old richard dawkins forum.
It may seem that way if you just look at recent posts but trust me this is a VERY different place .We had a close knit community of friends that was more than happy to push out a life boat to Thousands of wounded hurt and lost people and give them the space they need to vent and reorganise .
Snide comments that this place is like RDF not only show your ignorance but insult lots of my friends .......

Just remember you got to post here you didn't have to submit anything you said for approval a privilege you seem happy to see denied to 85,000 RDF members.

oh just another little point hosting your ill informed opinions costs us money please make a contribution !
wow.....so let me get this straight. You are delighted to host doctored photographs with slanderous comments suggesting that josh is richard dawkins illegitimate son via an affair with someone called trixie and you are busting my balls for trying to reason against the vicious and personal attacks on richard dawkins?

I'll get my coat.
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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Paul1 » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:07 pm

Fred Kite: You might not like the "old" RDF community, does that mean destroying it is justified...because a few people don't like it? Sounds like a religious action to me.

Fred Kite

Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Fred Kite » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:07 pm

Peter Brown wrote: Richard had a winning formula in his old site, but he dropped the ball and so others will indeed pick it up.
I couldn't leave without responding to that.

The 300lb gorilla in the room are the voluunteer moderators who clearly failed in their task of sustaining the forum properly. if they had of managed the forum correctly, there wouldn't be a problem. Richard would have been delighted with his forum, instead of being disgusted with SOME of the bile being posted there.

I'm not saying that josh and richard are blameless in all this, but, it's disingenuous and irrational in the extreme to suggest that it's al their fault. It's even more disingenuous to defend the sort of bile and vicious personal attacks directed at richard/josh.

I'm outta here.

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by wtargentina » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:08 pm

Why does Fred keep insisting angry people have aspergers syndrome?

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:08 pm

Fred Kite wrote:
Peter Brown wrote: Richard had a winning formula in his old site, but he dropped the ball and so others will indeed pick it up.
I couldn't leave without responding to that.

The 300lb gorilla in the room are the voluunteer moderators who clearly failed in their task of sustaining the forum properly. if they had of managed the forum correctly, there wouldn't be a problem. Richard would have been delighted with his forum, instead of being disgusted with SOME of the bile being posted there.

I'm not saying that josh and richard are blameless in all this, but, it's disingenuous and irrational in the extreme to suggest that it's al their fault. It's even more disingenuous to defend the sort of bile and vicious personal attacks directed at richard/josh.

I'm outta here.
Thanks for visiting.

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Animavore » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:09 pm

Bye.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by wtargentina » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:10 pm

Reminds me of Wayne's World

Go then

I'm gone

Well go then

Well I'm gone

....... ad infinitum

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Re: this is hugely embarrassing for regular atheists

Post by Randydeluxe » Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:11 pm

Fred Kite wrote:I have visited Richard Dawkins . net and it was not an atheist community.
So you don't know anything about the forums that were there.
Fred Kite wrote:I don't think i'll be hanging around here Charlou. but thanks anyway. it's too much like the old richard dawkins forum.
So you claim to know all about the forums that were there. Make up your mind!

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