Announcement about RDF Part 3.

[hackenslash]

Lion! You made it!

I know some people who would love to see you!

[klr]

Another thought:

Does anyone here believe that there was ever any genuine intention to preserve the old forum post history in the new all-singing, all-dancing discussion area? If it was actually intended, then there should be a mountain of "work process" lying around as evidence. Work done by either the in-house people (Josh and Andrew essentially), or some contracted party. The latter being more likely since neither of our two heroes strike me as being database experten. Someone should be able to produce design documents, schema, code, test plans, test data, the whole shooting gallery. Evidence to prove that this was a going concern. Because it's no trivial matter, no sirree. In fact, I had wondered at times why they were bothering to move to a new discussion environment at all, given how tricky moving the data to a new system would likely be. Why not just tart up the existing forum interface by whatever means possible?

The most reasonable conclusion for me is that they never gave any serious thought to it at all, and we were all just strung along until it was time to reveal the nasty truth. I don't even believe that they made an earnest attempt and realised at the last minute that they couldn't pull it off. Or if they did, it was reckless: You don't make a promise like that in advance unless you've scoped things out properly in advance.

Not only that but you just don't go and do a cut-over from system A to system B without thorough testing, esp load testing as the performance may be turned upside down with a new system, disk contention on frequently used tables, locking issues, backup and recovery issues. Normally you would have a beta testing period of the new software, then move existing data over and turn the old into read-only and then run the two in parallel until most kinks have been worked out and it has been verified that old data is accessible and can actually be found etc.

This is a process that at best would take months to accomplish, with a large forum like RDF, even longer.

Too me, the new forum sounded like Vaporware

Of course. This would have been several orders of magnitude more complex and risky than (say) a point upgrade of the forum software. No sort of job for fly-by-night operators. As I pointed out: Neither JT nor Chalkley are database gurus (never mind many of the other skills required to carry out such a complex undertaking). So whose help did they enlist?

[klr]

Well, I'm sure they were just about to provide that paper trail " work process proof" but if you're going to be all "like that" you dont then deserve to see it. *arms folded* Hmmmph!



Lion (IRC)
PS - Just taking the emots for a test drive.

No probs.

[Virus]

Don't know why they didn't just offer to transfer the forum to a third party so it
could continue under a different name. Fair enough if they didn't want a forum anymore. No need to be a douche about it.

[NineOneFour]

Don't know why they didn't just offer to transfer the forum to a third party so it
could continue under a different name. Fair enough if they didn't want a forum anymore. No need to be a douche about it.

Nailed it.

[Lion IRC]

Lion! You made it!

I know some people who would love to see you!

Hi Hackenslash,
Yeppers. I engaged the hyperdrive and came in on Tuesday.
Commiserations about the 10K+ posts going down the drain.
I think mine was the last post in that "pat on the back for Hack" thread about your prolific (and prolix) contributions.
Apart from being an atheist you rock!
Thanks for the link.
Lion (IRC)

[Godless Infidel]

Wow

There must be at least 500 posts on this forum regarding the RDF situation. A lesser number on a bunch of other forums. No, I did not count them or even read them all. Quitting my day job to do so is not an option.This shows the loyalty and importance that people had for the place.

I do not expect the RDF forum to survive this as the powers that control it do not share our priorities.

My best hope is that the deleted posts can be resurrected, and that a similar set of topics can be forumed ( is that a word?) here or elsewhere. I will find a way to host it if necessary. Rationalia would be a better option as they already know what the hell they are doing.

The best hope for preserving the posting history that I can see is something like the open letter at
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/rdf/

Keep in mind that RD is near 70 years old. Expecting him to understand internet culture in addition to his strengths at writing, orating, debating, his knowledge of biology, evolution, chemistry, physics, history, theology... and not fucking it all up is a bit much to ask.

[Virus]

I'm surprised it's in the British papers. It's almost like reading about someone calling Kanye West a "cockshit" on a discussion board. Maybe it's just schadenfreude.

[HughMcB]

I'm surprised it's in the British papers. It's almost like reading about someone calling Kanye West a "cockshit" on a discussion board. Maybe it's just schadenfreude.

seems a bit comical alright!

[z8000783]

Don't know why they didn't just offer to transfer the forum to a third party so it
could continue under a different name. Fair enough if they didn't want a forum anymore. No need to be a douche about it.

Because that would have required thinking, consultation and planning none of which are high points on the Foundation's strategy whatever that may be.

John

[Matthew Bailey]

Has anyone (else) seen the letter from Richard Dawkins on his forum?

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... 0&t=110356

Matthew Bailey

[twistor59]

Has anyone (else) seen the letter from Richard Dawkins on his forum?

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... 0&t=110356

Matthew Bailey

Yes, I imagined him reading aloud phrases such as "rhino's twat", in his distinctive voice.
The letter didn't address the loss of the vast repository of information, which for me was the most important thing.

[JimC]

Godless Infidel wrote:

...Rationalia would be a better option as they already know what the hell they are doing.

We do?

[95Theses]

Has anyone (else) seen the letter from Richard Dawkins on his forum?

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... 0&t=110356

Matthew Bailey

Yes, and it's a bloody disgrace to see Richard up to the very tricks that he despises in theists.

Painting everyone with the actions of a few (Hitler was an atheist don't you know?) Quote mining posts :

Or suppose that somebody on the same website expressed a “sudden urge to ram a fistful of nails” down your throat

The bottom line is that I personally am far more offended by Josh's 'handling' of this debacle than I am of the initial decision.

When someone tells me they know that change can be frightening in order to at both times shut me up and patronise me, I get the sudden urge to ram a fistful of nails down their throat.

So, yeah, bad handling.



(I'm glad you've sent a letter. A few well known names with calm and honest opinions might at least wake RD up to what has been done, even if he doesn't care)

Deliberately mis-representing the facts by stating that these comments were what caused the web site shut down when 5 minutes research shows that these comments were made on this website in response to the sudden closing down of the website as a petty reaction to fair critiscism of the decision on RDF, all of which was within the rules might I add.

[Samuel]

Don't know why they didn't just offer to transfer the forum to a third party so it
could continue under a different name. Fair enough if they didn't want a forum anymore. No need to be a douche about it.

I thought this too. They had several other options that axing it completely, one would be to distance RD from the forum, stick an "unofficial" stamp somewhere and switch the front page link to point to the new slashdot-like system. Maybe a different URL now or later. Do all this in co-operation. I'm sure people would have been ok with this.

What was the thing about "don't try to move elsewhere"? Josh was maybe not too familiar with the "herding cats" analogy? I can't think of any more efficient way to push people, at least the kind of individuals that RDF used to have, away that telling patronizing and telling them not to cause any hassle, but not to leave either. And not to dare tell others to leave too. Or maybe Josh was smarter than people give him credit, and this was his plan all the time.