For Reason and Science?

[lordpasternack]

It isn't your reasoning, its your obsession LP.

So my reasoning is fine - but you think I devote to much energy to it? Is that what you are saying?

We had this out before, not that it matters what this old guy who doesn't give much of a shit what the bloggosphere is gossiping about at any given moment thinks. He's an old man with a well deserved reputation for his achievements. He has many failings too it seems So fucking what.

This issue is bigger than Richard Dawkins simply having feet of clay. This is more than "gossiping". If you can't see that, then I'm sorry that I have been simply unable to make that clear. You clearly haven't understood the point, despite my previous attempts to make the point clear to you - and despite numerous primary sources being linked to, which should have raised concern in any rational being, with regard to the integrity of those within the Richard Dawkins Foundation. I'm sorry Rum - but there are several other people, including several Ratz, who get the point, and who understand my anger, and who have spoken to me about the issue sympathetically in person. I'm sorry that you just don't get it, but there we are. You have nothing cogent to share with me except your vague distaste. I have no wish to continue a futile dispute with you.

[Calilasseia]

It isn't your reasoning, its your obsession LP. We had this out before, not that it matters what this old guy who doesn't give much of a shit what the bloggosphere is gossiping about at any given moment thinks. He's an old man with a well deserved reputation for his achievements. He has many failings too it seems So fucking what.

The "so fucking what", is the point I made something like three years ago when the Timonen Affair resulted in the "Year Zero" canning of the Richard Dawkins Forums. Namely, that RD seems to be hell-bent upon performing actions that are lethal to his supposed mission. Which was a point I was making before LP's detective hunt began in earnest. LP's detective trail has simply reinforced that view, namely, that he's handing gold-plated ammunition to the very people he's supposedly declared himself to be at war with. I refer you to this post amongst others, which is only one of several posts I've posted here in which I use the words "political dimension" to refer to the manner in which RD is apparently handing creationists amongst others, the opportunity to indulge in a wet-dream fest of galactic proportions at his expense. The problem being, of course, that because RD is, to use that much-abused word, a celebrity, the shit hitting the fan from any incompetence on his part is likely to wind up hitting a lot of non-celebrity faces as well, including the people who in the past turned to him as a means of escape from toxic, overbearing, and in some cases, homicidally intolerant fundamentalist religion.

Of course, I'd be only too happy to see a world in which his choice of bed partner was seen to be the irrelevance it is in the grander scheme of things, when compared to issues such as the mendacious attempts by creationists to pervert and corrupt the arena of discourse to the point where it becomes a total cesspit, whilst conniving and scheming to try and force their worthless mythology into science classes, and by doing so poison irrevocably countless thousands of young minds. Alongside that sort of offence, RD being a bit frisky is like a pea on the ground beside the fucking Matterhorn. Financial mismanagement, on the other hand, apart from lining him up for the inevitable crowing by creationists pointing at him as a sort of atheist Kent Hovind, is an area that he should be scrupulously avoiding precisely because the multifarious instances thereof amongst supernaturalists are amongst our best weapons, when it comes to the discoursive knife fighting.

In short, to use a famous Northern vernacular, he's pissing on his own chips grand style. I for one would rather he didn't, for the reasons given above.

[DaveDodo007]

It isn't your reasoning, its your obsession LP. We had this out before, not that it matters what this old guy who doesn't give much of a shit what the bloggosphere is gossiping about at any given moment thinks. He's an old man with a well deserved reputation for his achievements. He has many failings too it seems So fucking what.

The "so fucking what", is the point I made something like three years ago when the Timonen Affair resulted in the "Year Zero" canning of the Richard Dawkins Forums. Namely, that RD seems to be hell-bent upon performing actions that are lethal to his supposed mission. Which was a point I was making before LP's detective hunt began in earnest. LP's detective trail has simply reinforced that view, namely, that he's handing gold-plated ammunition to the very people he's supposedly declared himself to be at war with. I refer you to this post amongst others, which is only one of several posts I've posted here in which I use the words "political dimension" to refer to the manner in which RD is apparently handing creationists amongst others, the opportunity to indulge in a wet-dream fest of galactic proportions at his expense. The problem being, of course, that because RD is, to use that much-abused word, a celebrity, the shit hitting the fan from any incompetence on his part is likely to wind up hitting a lot of non-celebrity faces as well, including the people who in the past turned to him as a means of escape from toxic, overbearing, and in some cases, homicidally intolerant fundamentalist religion.

Of course, I'd be only too happy to see a world in which his choice of bed partner was seen to be the irrelevance it is in the grander scheme of things, when compared to issues such as the mendacious attempts by creationists to pervert and corrupt the arena of discourse to the point where it becomes a total cesspit, whilst conniving and scheming to try and force their worthless mythology into science classes, and by doing so poison irrevocably countless thousands of young minds. Alongside that sort of offence, RD being a bit frisky is like a pea on the ground beside the fucking Matterhorn. Financial mismanagement, on the other hand, apart from lining him up for the inevitable crowing by creationists pointing at him as a sort of atheist Kent Hovind, is an area that he should be scrupulously avoiding precisely because the multifarious instances thereof amongst supernaturalists are amongst our best weapons, when it comes to the discoursive knife fighting.

In short, to use a famous Northern vernacular, he's pissing on his own chips grand style. I for one would rather he didn't, for the reasons given above.

Doesn't really matter as the people who attack Dawkins are usually the lowest of the low and use shit like he is rude, strident and a atheist fundie and all that shit. So It is no surprise that there is a knee jerk response to such bullshit that has to be countered. It is almost Pavlovian when you see a low life maggot attack Richard it is hard not to give them both barrels, it certainly makes me bounce around the intertubes calling them all cunts and/or fuckarts.
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Though as it seems to be open season on Richard then it is lp best chance of getting her opus published. She probably has a week long window to send it to all and sundry. If nothing happens then all I can suggest is send it to Salon.com as they seem to be a feminist/atheism+ propaganda sheet. I might catch them off guard that she has done a lot of research rather than just post bias shit. Though if you can't get it published in Salon.com probably best to give it a rest and find another hobby.

[lordpasternack]

Yeah, you're right - because I've spent several months digging up evidence of malfeasance and deception within RDFRS - specifically evidence that Robin Elisabeth Cornwell is a persistent liar and manipulator, who has harmed a fair handful of people within the atheist community, and who likely knowingly set up forumgate, and then falsely accused Josh Timonen of 'embezzlement', to watch him go up in flames - all the time with my eyes absolutely fixed on the ultimate prize of being published in a tabloid rag.

I suppose if my big publishing break doesn't work out, I'll just go find something else to bring the simple fame and notoriety that I crave. There are definitely no deeper or nobler principles to my drive, here…

[Tyrannical]

Infidelity comes down to a lack of integrity and honesty. If you'd cheat on your wife, you'd cheat on your friends, your career or your country. You simply become untrustworthy, and everything that entails.

At least in my opinion

[Scott1328]

I just listened to Cornwell speaking at Apostacon she apparently is Dawkins pr spokesperson and basically spent her entire time talking about Dawkins

She is not a dynamic speaker

Her abject adoration and veneration of Dawkins is somewhat disconcerting

[Bella Fortuna]

I'm sure LP will be more than willing to give you a dissertation on her.

She is less than engaging in person - downright cold, from my personal experience.

[cronus]

I said some years ago that RD was setting 'merican atheists up with the coming out campaign. If a theocracy took over the US, and that still easily could happen with a dollar collapse, they'd round up the A mob quicker than Hoover did with the commies. He is a cultural Christian - a 6.9er, think it through?

[Tyrannical]

I said some years ago that RD was setting 'merican atheists up with the coming out campaign. If a theocracy took over the US, and that still easily could happen with a dollar collapse, they'd round up the A mob quicker than Hoover did with the commies. He is a cultural Christian - a 6.9er, think it through?

You're just saying that to make me feel better

[Calilasseia]

I said some years ago that RD was setting 'merican atheists up with the coming out campaign. If a theocracy took over the US, and that still easily could happen with a dollar collapse, they'd round up the A mob quicker than Hoover did with the commies. He is a cultural Christian - a 6.9er, think it through?

As a tangential diversion, I'm tempted to ask how saying "we can't absolutely rule out a god-type entity, but we can certainly rule out those entities asserted to exist in mythology" equal "cultural Christian"?

[cronus]

I said some years ago that RD was setting 'merican atheists up with the coming out campaign. If a theocracy took over the US, and that still easily could happen with a dollar collapse, they'd round up the A mob quicker than Hoover did with the commies. He is a cultural Christian - a 6.9er, think it through?

As a tangential diversion, I'm tempted to ask how saying "we can't absolutely rule out a god-type entity, but we can certainly rule out those entities asserted to exist in mythology" equal "cultural Christian"?

If he'd said something else I wouldn't have recalled it.

[Calilasseia]

I'm still puzzled how you arrive at the connection.

[lordpasternack]

There was a "Press Release" published on RD.net about Sean Faircloth's departure from RDF which has curiously disappeared from the website. This is rather odd for something that was published as a "Press Release", rather than merely as a general notification. It seems that at least someone within the Foundation had a change of heart about this going to the press, or indeed, receiving any kind of attention at all, from anyone. RDF has also stopped stocking Faircloth's book - which is fair sign that he did something to offend a certain spiteful, vindictive, insane bitch his departure was not amicable.

The press release is still available on Google Cache for the time being (and I have taken a cache of Google's cache). You may view it here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... ss-release#

It reads as follows:

Press Release - Sean Faircloth
posted on September 20, 2013 05:12AM GMT

The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science regrettably announces that Sean Faircloth will be leaving the Foundation effective immediately, to lead a new non-profit organization which will focus on secular strategizing and organizing. Faircloth joined the Dawkins Foundation in the fall of 2011, where he served as the Director of Policy and Strategic Partnerships.

Richard Dawkins extends his gratitude to Faircloth for his service to the Foundation and commends him for his new endeavor, which includes the “Get Religious Bias Out of Government” campaign. We hope you will join us in wishing Faircloth the best of luck and success in future endeavors. Please contact Edwina Rogers with questions or transitional matters.

They wish him "the best of luck", but they stop stocking his book? Welcome to world of Cornwelian Doublespeak! It's also interesting that remark that he "will be leaving... effective immediately" - when I heard about his departure, and his name was scrubbed from RD.net almost a month ago! It's apparently "regrettable", and they wish him well - but Cornwell wasted no fucking time at all in removing his name from the site, and his book from the Foundation store. (On the bright side - it looks as though she hasn't blamed Faircloth for any heinous crimes, yet - but she's probably smearing him quietly behind the scenes, and blaming him for mistakes she made - and Richard's still swallowing it... Plus ça change...)

Oh, and they'd closed comments on the "Press Release". Wouldn't want to risk people discussing RDF's Trouble in Paradise, in public, would you?

Now - given that Faircloth was under the wing of Richard Dawkins, and well-placed (or so it might have seemed) to work within that existing organisation to achieve his particular goals - what would motivate him to splinter off and start an organisation from scratch? It's a fucking ridiculous amount of effort to start a new organisation from scratch - and generally pretty daft if you're already employed by someone high profile, and directing the strategy and policy of that person's existing organisation.

He also valued his position within RDFRS, at least until recently - and it was obvious from things he'd said in the past that he considered it a true honour, and that he considered the organisation noble, and for the greater good.

It doesn't take a genius to spot the irregularity there, and to start to sense that things had turned seriously sour, behind the scenes...

Presuming that Faircloth is fairly sane (and that's always been my personal impression of him) - it would not have been an easy decision for him to make, and not one he'd have taken lightly. He would have had serious qualms about getting involved in any kind of infighting within RDFRS. I imagine there had been a lot of tongue-biting over the past weeks or months on Faircloth's part, which eventually culminated in open conflict.

So, in a nutshell - fuck knows the details what happened - but it looks like SOME kind of conflict arose, scales fell from Sean's eyes, and he left of his own accord.

I doubt I'll ever hear the full story - but it's just yet another mini-saga to go down in the Clusterfuck Chronicles of RDF.

[lordpasternack]

I just listened to Cornwell speaking at Apostacon she apparently is Dawkins pr spokesperson and basically spent her entire time talking about Dawkins

She is not a dynamic speaker

Her abject adoration and veneration of Dawkins is somewhat disconcerting

In a nutshell: Without him she's nothing.

She may lie to everyone, including Dawkins - but she knows on a basic practical level which side her bread is buttered. It is also in her interests to keep Dawkins believing that she is "fiercely loyal" to him...

She is less than engaging in person - downright cold, from my personal experience.

When one is downright cold inside, exuding charm and mimicking friendly warmth requires conscious thought, and time and energy. The convincing charade of charm is best reserved for special occasions - specifically for people with money, or people with influence, or people who might talk to those with money/influence.

Of course, the mask does occasionally slip. When she is not exerting conscious effort - Cornwell talks about topics that she purports to be passionate about, issues she purports to find emotive, in complete monotone, and with practically zero facial expressions:

[DaveDodo007]

Edit: Fuck it. Why wont the youtube link work.