Exi5entialist's Allegations- Discussion and debate

[Jason]

What's all this then? Care to summarize it here for people who have been deemed persona non grata at RatSkep?

[surreptitious57]

Care to summarize it here for people who have been deemed persona non grata at RatSkep?

According to Exi5, rationalia is a site that promotes sexual abuse and he himself is a victim of it. The poll is nothing more than a superficial attempt to invoke democracy. The staff are all bullies and the site needs a complete overhaul otherwise the sexual abuse will carry on. He made explicit references to it at least six times in his post. I pass no judgement as I am just the messenger, but that is it in a nutshell. He might as well have posted it here as he is not very popular over there either. But as I said, I take no sides, or try not to anyway. When all around you are losing their heads . . .

[hackenslash]

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 1#p1230271

[DaveD]

I don't know if I should post this, but since some people here can't see it in situ, here's Exi5tentialist's bullshit in full. BTW, he's not getting an easy ride, most people there can see through him, and the more he posts the more obvious his butthurt is.

You’ll be aware of the joke made by an admin at Rationalia about raping Skepchicks which has embroiled the website in its own ongoing sexual abuse crisis. Bizarrely, the same admin has now issued a poll at Rationalia asking whether or not he should resign. Obviously he feels unable to take responsibility that decision himself.

I'll take this opportunity to speak against poll itself, but also to make the point that yes, I think the entire membership of any forum should be held accountable when they fail to adequately respond to a serious problem of sexual abuse within their own organization. Equally when a forum uses harassment or disciplinary procedures to curtail the expression of protest against sexual abuse I think all members are responsible. I would lay the same responsibility on all members of a church where sexual abuse was prevalent, I don't see why I should be any more generous to an atheist organisation or atheist website. I am a member at Rationalia and that is why I am responding. My response is outside Rationalia because when I have sought to raise issues within it I have myself been sexually abused and personally harassed.

As far as the resignation poll that’s now been proposed at Rationalia is concerned, I don't think resigning would be enough. What staff at Rationalia really need to do is stop breaking their own rules on harassing people who express dissent, and stop coming down like a ton of bricks on any person other than staff who proposes any significant constitutional change to their present, nothing-can-change-without-staff-say-so governance arrangements.

If staff did stop their authoritarian behaviour (behaviour they show, for example, whenever a staff review is proposed by an ordinary member) it might then be possible for Rationalia to have a sensible conversation about the methods by which staff are appointed by the Rationalia community. But the present resignation poll is a travesty of democracy. I'll explain why.

As in any community whose members are equals and not people who are manipulated by a leader, you would normally expect alternative candidates to incumbent staff to be invited to come forward at every AGM. This is normally done in order to invite ordinary members to stand for election as equal candidates alongside any incumbents who wish to stand. That’s the usual format for a fair election.

If such a democratic process were the norm at Rationalia, it would open the door for the present staff power base to be more easily challenged. An environment where it is considered acceptable for alternative candidates to come forward tends to be one where they do. Where it is considered unacceptable, they don't. At Rationalia, they don't.

Instead, the situation at present is that the kind of disloyalty to staff that might seriously challenge their position is easily met with verbal harassment, sexual abuse and official threats of disciplinary action, so they get to keep their jobs.

Obviously staff at Rationalia are not confident enough to submit to the kind of pluralistic process as would be permitted by a conventional fair election. In its absence, this latest faux-democracy poll is just one more of their manipulations – an exercise to claim democratic legitimacy where they have none.

And pretty transparent it is. It's reasonable to predict that they'll be crowing at the end of the process how, “We had a poll”, “People were allowed to vote”, “It wasn’t perfect but at least people were asked” etc etc. The combinations are endless.

So the main problem with claiming that the latest popularity poll is democratic is that it is not the way democracy works. Challenging people to vote for the Great Leader’s resignation where there isn't even a process to enable alternative candidates to come forward isn't in any way democratic. Furthermore although people who might speak openly for the resignation may currently be in a minority, Rationalia's members have already demonstrated the type of verbal sexual abuse that they are capable of inflicting on anybody they find “annoying” (you'll recall that it was because he finds Skepchicks annoying that their site leader made his joke about raping them).

They may hold back while they are under external observation as they are at the moment, and when the dissenting minority are sufficiently intimidated not to visit the site and make much of a noise there. But where there is a real possibility that the way Rationalia is run might actually change as a result of dissent expressed by a minority, sexualised verbal abuse, personal harassment and disciplinary procedures are used.

These are the principal methods by which those who support the incumbent staff at Rationalia retain their supremacy, and the means by which any dissent is efficiently dealt with. One site member recently spoke out against Rationalia’s sexual abuse in public, and in response a thread was quickly started describing him as a "stone cold racist." If anybody wants to read the full list of epithets that directed at this member during that thread, contact me, because I do not want to be associated with them by repeating them publicly. Needless to say, they sound like a sado-masochistic abuse playroom. Unsurprisingly, the member expressed his understandable anger and asked for his account to be de-activated.

Personally I would predict that if Rationalia does not change fundamentally there will be recurring sexual abuse problems at the site in the coming months. Rationalia's leaders will continue to suffer from a crisis of authority and their position will become more and more untenable. At the moment, Rationalia can legitimately claim to be a private site run by its bullies. Let them have that. But please let’s not let them pretend this resignation poll is actually democracy or even “the next best thing.” We should be ready to counter their claims to democracy when they start going all over the internet saying what a fun, silly, free, democratic place Rationalia is. It is none of those things - it’s an abuse website where a small number of bullies can come out with whatever offensive rubbish that they want to without facing any responsibility within the site, and can sexually abuse anyone who might seriously challenge the position of their current staff.

[Azathoth]

tl/dr

[hackenslash]

From the album Crisis? What crisis?

[Jason]

Instead, the situation at present is that the kind of disloyalty to staff that might seriously challenge their position is easily met with verbal harassment, sexual abuse and official threats of disciplinary action, so they get to keep their jobs.


I'm open for any sexual 'abuse' the women of ratz would like to inflict on me.

[Hermit]

tl/dr

My response is outside Rationalia because when I have sought to raise issues within it I have myself been sexually abused

That's from the end of the opening post's second paragraph, and that is where I stopped reading.

Mind you, I don't agree that Exi5tentialist engaged in "intentional malicious trolling". He was being sincere, but has the sort of personality and demeanour that tends to grate on most people he interacts with. That's pretty typical of individuals who obsessively and intensively promote a good idea in a manner that just does not fit.

[Robert_S]

This is a shit judgement, poor taste, lack of consideration and atrocious level of insensitivity scandel.

Can really you put yourself in a mindset where you could honestly call this a sexual abuse scandal?

[Bella Fortuna]

Indeed, I would have put it in quotes. It's a ridiculous assertion.

[amused]

...That's pretty typical of individuals who obsessively and intensively promote a good idea in a manner that just does not fit.

I don't think he (Exi5) had a good idea at all. From what I remember, neither did most of the rest of the forum. We all have ideas that we like, but which are rejected by others.

[Robert_S]

We so don't need that thread title with that wall of text.

[Tero]

hah! Thread locked!

[Hermit]

...That's pretty typical of individuals who obsessively and intensively promote a good idea in a manner that just does not fit.

I don't think he (Exi5) had a good idea at all. From what I remember, neither did most of the rest of the forum. We all have ideas that we like, but which are rejected by others.

The good idea I was thinking of is democracy. That is what Exi5tentialist was banging on about most of the time, but he did that in a manner that just does not fit. He kept thinking of the forum as a nation rather than a club, and no, one size does not fit all. We have sufficient say how this joint iss run without needing a formal government structure, and quite tellingly, Exi5stentialist is not interested in participating in the one forum, Talk Rational, that most closely tries to implement such a structure himself.

[SteveB]

Show me on the doll where Rationalia touched you?