So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by laklak » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:55 pm

Ian wrote:Sounds like we have a new name for our forum! Nest of Cockroaches! :cheer:
I thought that was an 80s band.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Robert_S » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:00 pm

pzmyers wrote:
Robert_S wrote:I've reported this thread. PZ Myers is a member here and as such should not be personally attacked.
I've got no complaints here. For a forum that regards rape threats as a reasonable way to criticize someone, I'm being treated kindly. Relatively.

It's also just more hypocrisy-wallowing. Do carry on.
The OP of this post:
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Was not a regular here before you brought this forum wider fame.

Pappa, who made that post, has been taken to task and has apologized. Yet you still want more shaming? You want to make an example of him and this forum as a whole?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by SteveB » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:03 pm

Badger3k wrote:That's it? PZ - considering you have joked about mass murder in Aurora and Offically Sanctioned male rape in Texas, when you're asked for citations, it is normal to provide them. It is not an excuse to ban people. I know that's what's done at your site, but please provide evidence of either rape threats or the condoning of such.
PZ can joke about it cuz he's on the right side, obviously. Start reading your Bible..oops..I mean..http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/. :read:

Femmandment the 5th:

Ye shall be exempt from hypocrisy if ye be of the faithful.
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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Badger3k » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:21 pm

Nibbler wrote:
Badger3k wrote:That's it? PZ - considering you have joked about mass murder in Aurora and Offically Sanctioned male rape in Texas, when you're asked for citations, it is normal to provide them. It is not an excuse to ban people. I know that's what's done at your site, but please provide evidence of either rape threats or the condoning of such.
PZ can joke about it cuz he's on the right side, obviously. Start reading your Bible..oops..I mean..http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/. :read:

Femmandment the 5th:

Ye shall be exempt from hypocrisy if ye be of the faithful.
Damn. I guess that's more Our Peezus and Hail Watsons for me. Where'd I leave my whip?

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Pappa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:23 pm

pzmyers wrote:A nest of cockroaches isn't filthy and unhygienic. Turning on the light and exposing a nest of cockroaches...now that's evil and disgusting.

There, see. I said the same thing you did, only with more brevity and panache.
I wish you could see your grandiose self-importance from the outside. Your proclamations are like fatwas and your opinions about the rationalist/atheist community are embarrassing.

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Badger3k » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:29 pm

Pappa wrote:
pzmyers wrote:A nest of cockroaches isn't filthy and unhygienic. Turning on the light and exposing a nest of cockroaches...now that's evil and disgusting.

There, see. I said the same thing you did, only with more brevity and panache.
I wish you could see your grandiose self-importance from the outside. Your proclamations are like fatwas and your opinions about the rationalist/atheist community are embarrassing.
I'd really like to ask him "what happened", but I don't think I'd get an honest answer if I got any answer. His story is like that of rock stars - he gets elevated too fast and suddenly he's the most important guy in the atheisphere, ready to bring the light to us heathens. I'm not sure if it's ok to ask here, but I've heard that he has always been that way from way back in his TO days, and you here seem to have history. Is this new, or were there signs? If it's ok to talk about, that is. If not, just say so.

ETA: How about it PZ - hod you go from someone a lot of people respected, to this caricature?

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by pzmyers » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:33 pm

I really, really recommend that you read Audley Strange's comment carefully. My summary was dead on. He literally said that tasteless, offensive jokes that attack a group aren't the problem, but that criticizing the people who say misogynistic jokes is "Bundy level of misogyny".

If you can't see the problem with that, you're more hopeless than I thought.

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Twoflower » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:35 pm

He is entitled to say whatever he wants, just like everyone else is. That doesn't mean he speaks for the forum or represents the forum in any way. Honestly I haven't responded to most of this stuff because I have moved on. The drama and argument are over as far as I am concerned.
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And dragged away and thrown away
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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Robert_S » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:36 pm

Pappa wrote:
pzmyers wrote:A nest of cockroaches isn't filthy and unhygienic. Turning on the light and exposing a nest of cockroaches...now that's evil and disgusting.

There, see. I said the same thing you did, only with more brevity and panache.
I wish you could see your grandiose self-importance from the outside. Your proclamations are like fatwas and your opinions about the rationalist/atheist community are embarrassing.
Pappa, STFU!

You fucking knew, or should have known better than to make that thread. Even thought the OP came from FTB, it is a thread on our forum calling a member a racist.

You are calling out that member on their tone in a thread calling them a racist!!!

FOR FUCK'S SAKE STOP DIGGING!!!

I don't recall you posting very heavily in CES's threads on the Skepchics. You fucking trolled a group of people and now want to complain about the tone their friends take. You knew damn well that was provocative and would get a reaction.

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Kristie » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:36 pm

pzmyers wrote:I really, really recommend that you read Audley Strange's comment carefully. My summary was dead on. He literally said that tasteless, offensive jokes that attack a group aren't the problem, but that criticizing the people who say misogynistic jokes is "Bundy level of misogyny".

If you can't see the problem with that, you're more hopeless than I thought.
I'm pretty sure you are twisting words or misunderstanding his post.
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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Cormac » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:40 pm

pzmyers wrote:
Robert_S wrote:I've reported this thread. PZ Myers is a member here and as such should not be personally attacked.
I've got no complaints here. For a forum that regards rape threats as a reasonable way to criticize someone, I'm being treated kindly. Relatively.

It's also just more hypocrisy-wallowing. Do carry on.

PZ. Can you please explain something to me. I had no knowledge of the existence of Pappa's post before I saw your blog post on the topic. Can you explain how it is that you think that I, in some way, condone rape simply by being a member of this forum?

Because this is exactly what you said in your post.
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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Badger3k » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:42 pm

laklak wrote:
Ian wrote:Sounds like we have a new name for our forum! Nest of Cockroaches! :cheer:
I thought that was an 80s band.
Why all this hate for roaches? They serve some evolutionary role, since they are still around. They have a niche and a function in our ecosystem, and while they are "other" and make a satisfying crunch when you whump 'em, I don't hate them or think they're disgusting. And, while it doesn't matter how clean your house is, the clear implication is that the more you have the more unclean you're house is. Of course, that uses first world standards. Many houses the world over are clean but have roaches and other insects. Hell, in some places the roaches would be a ready source of protein.

Still, I did like their music videos - I think they're still stuck on "Motel of Hair". :dance:

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Pappa » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Robert_S wrote:
Pappa wrote:
pzmyers wrote:A nest of cockroaches isn't filthy and unhygienic. Turning on the light and exposing a nest of cockroaches...now that's evil and disgusting.

There, see. I said the same thing you did, only with more brevity and panache.
I wish you could see your grandiose self-importance from the outside. Your proclamations are like fatwas and your opinions about the rationalist/atheist community are embarrassing.
Pappa, STFU!

You fucking knew, or should have known better than to make that thread. Even thought the OP came from FTB, it is a thread on our forum calling a person a racist.

You are calling out someone on their tone in a thread calling them a racist!!!

FOR FUCK'S SAKE STOP DIGGING!!!

I don't recall you posting very heavily in CES's threads on the Skepchics. You fucking trolled a group of people and now want to complain about the tone their friends take. You knew damn well that was provocative and would get a reaction.
I'm free to criticise whoever I like if I do it without breaking the rules.

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Wumbologist » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:43 pm

Twoflower wrote:He is entitled to say whatever he wants, just like everyone else is. That doesn't mean he speaks for the forum or represents the forum in any way. Honestly I haven't responded to most of this stuff because I have moved on. The drama and argument are over as far as I am concerned.
I'd like to know what PZ's ultimate goal here is. If he bothered to read much of the forum here he would clearly see that members here were critical of Pappa's post, and certainly did not condone it. He said something stupid and we pretty much all agree on that, but as a forum we also stand for the idea that it's everyone's right to say things, even if they are stupid. Nobody agrees with the drivel Tyrannical or Seth spew half of the time, and PZ somehow seems to understand that those views don't represent the forum as a whole, either. I'll put out an open challenge to find one view (other than the absurdly basic, like "food is good" or "murder is bad") that is representative of this forum as a whole. I don't think you'll find it.

So, back to PZ's ultimate goal. What is it? Anyone capable of viewing this forum with rational eyes will see that even if we accept that there are "cockroaches", we are far from a den for them. Yet PZ opens up a fault line in the community over this idea, dragging several of the most prominent atheist forums on the internet through the mud. For what? What purpose is there to dividing people in this way? Is it about blog hits? Did he simply not think it through, and is now incapable of letting sleeping dogs lie? Is he a deep cover Creationist plant trying to cause chaos and strife among "the enemy"?

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Re: So, PZ is a stone-cold racist.

Post by Ian » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:44 pm

Who is "you're", PZ?

Would you care to apologize to someone you've never met for suggesting that he's a professional fundraiser who may genuinely be advocating sexual violence? Or that an entire thread full of people deserve a blanket accusation as being okay with that if it were true? Ponder for a bit just how vile these things really are.

Or... maybe you know perfectly well that there was nothing *serious* to the OP, and you're just looking to stir up some drama. Your reaction to that thread was far worse than what the OP was in the first place, assuming you knew perfectly well that it was meant as nothing more than a provocation-creating offensive joke.

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