Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line!

[hadespussercats]

If you don't want to be viewed as a sex object, then wear a big black bag so nobody can tell if you're male, female or even human.

Whole countries and cultures utilize that simple "sexual harassment" avoidance expedient.

Otherwise, just say "Why thank you for your interest, but no thanks" or shut the fuck up.

Some people keep their dildos in a big black bag. Does that make them no longer sex objects?

Or does it in fact emphasize the sexual nature of the object, that it is shameful and needs to be hidden in a big black bag?

There is a difference between asking someone you're interested in sexually to spend some time with you, and harrassing them. (This point goes equally for debaters on both sides of this issue.)

[hadespussercats]

Except of course that hitting on somebody who is 'at work' does not constitute harassment per se, or thousands of barmaids and other personnel in contact with the customers would be raking in millions in suits against customers who hit on them.

Or they don't pursue possible legitimate legal claims.

My understanding is that "hitting on" someone at work IS in fact harassment.

Not everyone is so bothered by that that they turn to legal intervention.

[Svartalf]

An over-reaction, perhaps, but I agree with Hades that handing out the card wasn't appropriate in context, and is definitely towards the sleazy end of the spectrum...

if that was a convention, and they'd been in net contact for some time, maybe it WAS in fact the most opportune time to make a move... who knows how long would pass till the next meet?

Well, the fact that it might have been their only chance doesn't make it the right time. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Svartalf.

Besides, they had Facebook contact.

Weoll, gift me with some rope for Xmas will ya?

[Azathoth]

Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

[Svartalf]

Except of course that hitting on somebody who is 'at work' does not constitute harassment per se, or thousands of barmaids and other personnel in contact with the customers would be raking in millions in suits against customers who hit on them.

Or they don't pursue possible legitimate legal claims.

My understanding is that "hitting on" someone at work IS in fact harassment.

Not everyone is so bothered by that that they turn to legal intervention.

Dunno, French legal definition of it implies the ability to make trouble at work for the harassee, if not the threat (implied or overt) to do so.

Maybe US definition is different.

[hadespussercats]

Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

Ah. Well. This doesn't seem to satisfy those standards at all.

Is that the US definition?

[hadespussercats]

Except of course that hitting on somebody who is 'at work' does not constitute harassment per se, or thousands of barmaids and other personnel in contact with the customers would be raking in millions in suits against customers who hit on them.

Or they don't pursue possible legitimate legal claims.

My understanding is that "hitting on" someone at work IS in fact harassment.

Not everyone is so bothered by that that they turn to legal intervention.

Dunno, French legal definition of it implies the ability to make trouble at work for the harassee, if not the threat (implied or overt) to do so.

Maybe US definition is different.

I'm not sure.

But barmaids and the like have a real incentive to let this sort of thing pass-- the guys (creepy or otherwise) who hit on them will probably tip well if she's friendly.

You'd hope, anyway...

[Bella Fortuna]

Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

Ah. Well. This doesn't seem to satisfy those standards at all.

Is that the US definition?

The legal definition for "harassment" is severe, pervasive, and unwanted.

[hadespussercats]

Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

Ah. Well. This doesn't seem to satisfy those standards at all.

Is that the US definition?

The legal definition for "harassment" is severe, pervasive, and unwanted.

Ah, well. In this case, the attention was unwanted. But hardly severe or pervasive.

[Svartalf]

Well, the incident at hand only checks the 'unwanted' box... and even so, the 'offenders' could not know it was before they asked.

[Jason]

Does anyone have a link to the "A Bit of Fry & Laurie" sketch with the lawyers negotiating a contract?

I'd link it myself.. but dial-up..

[Pappa]

Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

There you have it.

[Coito ergo sum]

If you don't want to be viewed as a sex object, then wear a big black bag so nobody can tell if you're male, female or even human.

Whole countries and cultures utilize that simple "sexual harassment" avoidance expedient.

Otherwise, just say "Why thank you for your interest, but no thanks" or shut the fuck up.

Some people keep their dildos in a big black bag. Does that make them no longer sex objects?

Or does it in fact emphasize the sexual nature of the object, that it is shameful and needs to be hidden in a big black bag?

There is a difference between asking someone you're interested in sexually to spend some time with you, and harrassing them. (This point goes equally for debaters on both sides of this issue.)

Certainly. But, one instance of handing someone a card cannot be "harassment." It may be rude. It may be crude. It may be inappropriate. But, not harassment.

[Coito ergo sum]

Except of course that hitting on somebody who is 'at work' does not constitute harassment per se, or thousands of barmaids and other personnel in contact with the customers would be raking in millions in suits against customers who hit on them.

Or they don't pursue possible legitimate legal claims.

My understanding is that "hitting on" someone at work IS in fact harassment.

Not everyone is so bothered by that that they turn to legal intervention.

Negative.

Workplace harassment is only harassment if it is "unwelcome." A person who doesn't mind or "isn't so bothered by" communications from another person is, quite simply, not being harassed. Unwelcomeness is a necessary, but not wholly sufficient, element of workplace harassment. In other words, if you and I are friends, and you don't mind me making sexual innuendo to you at work, and telling you how much I want to do various sexual things to you, then it's not harassment. If you're my boss and you hit on me, but I welcome it, then it is not sexual harassment.

Also, hitting on someone at work, even if it is unwelcome, is only sexual harassment if it is so pervasive and extreme that it rises to the level of a "hostile work environment" and rises to the level of a change in the terms and conditions of employment. It has to be bad. If you tried to sue because one coworker hit on you or handed you a swinger card, you would not get anywhere with it. You would lose. Guaranteed.

Now, if someone hits on you repeatedly after being told you don't like the attention, then you're getting closer. And, if you've notified your employer that a coworker or customer is harassing you, and they fail to take prompt and appropriate remedial measures, then you can have a lawsuit against your employer.

I can tell you, you'd not get a lawyer to take your case (unless you agreed to pay an hourly fee and were prepared that the case was very low percentage chance of winning), if all someone did was hand you a swinger card.

Most employers make such conduct against company policy, of course. Because the sexual harassment policies and HR departments are there to protect the company, not the employee. The company makes sure that they have told everyone to not engage in any conduct that could even be claimed to be unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature. Their policies are far broader than what sexual harassment is under the law.

[Coito ergo sum]

Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality. To be unlawful, the conduct must create a work environment that would be intimidating, hostile, or offensive to reasonable people.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/practices/harassment.cfm

Bingo -- stress on the work "environment." That's not 5 seconds of discomfort or one instance of someone bothering you. One rainy day doesn't change the "environment."