Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line!

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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Bella Fortuna » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:06 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ayaan wrote:I'm gonna say it...some people just get waaaay to worked up over crap that means nothing and need to grow up. Even if their intent was a threesome, they handed her a card and walked away - no pressure. IMHO, it doesn't reach the level of harassment until the person on the receiving end has made it known the attention isn't wanted and it continues anyway. (I am going just by what I read in the OP.)
According to Skepchicks, it's harassment if you make an overture without having already determined that the person is interested. How that interested is supposed to be determined without in some way asking or implying what one is asking for, they are never clear about. You're just "supposed to know." You know..."if you don't already know....I'm certainly not going to tell you..." LOL
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Coito ergo sum » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:07 pm

Audley Strange wrote:Perhaps it's just me but I think I see the cause of the issue on this one.

It's about a confusion of roles. Most people see a convention as a social event, as such accept that libidinous shenanigans are going to be part of that.

However, what the complaints seem to be about is the distinction of being approached at a social event as a professional. I think the perception might be that being a professional at an event means that they are working and thus apart from the social aspect of it and thus should be afforded a certain level of professional respect and distance.

I'm not sure that's particularly a bad thing to be honest, but perhaps they shouldn't mingle with the plebs, people are awful.
They do harp on about how she was "at work." Well, most speakers at these conferences don't consider themselves "at work." They do it for fun. Maybe that's the difference.

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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Hermit » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:50 pm

Drewish wrote:Skepchick =

HOW DARE PEOPLE ASK ME TO HAVE SEX!!!! I am deeply offended, and we need to change the culture so that people see that propositioning someone for sex so that they have to bother saying, "No thanks," is sexual harassment! OMG I'm so alone :cry:
A case of "do as I say, not as I do." And why stop at handing out cards?

Meet Rebecca Watson:

Image

As far as I am concerned, sexual suggestions made at any function are OK. They don't turn into sexual harassment unless they keep being made after the person making them has been told that they are not welcome.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by geehigh » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 pm

Hermit wrote:A case of "do as I say, not as I do." And why stop at handing out cards?

Meet Rebecca Watson:

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:hilarious:


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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Seth » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:40 pm

If you don't want to be viewed as a sex object, then wear a big black bag so nobody can tell if you're male, female or even human.

Whole countries and cultures utilize that simple "sexual harassment" avoidance expedient.

Otherwise, just say "Why thank you for your interest, but no thanks" or shut the fuck up.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Hermit » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:42 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:That's different.

:prof:
Certainly. "I'm only joking, and anyway, I'm in my kitchen taking a break from doing the dishes, not at a conference."

I described Watson as an airhead in the other thread about the previous storm in a B sized teacup. Should have preceded that with "onanistic".
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Tero » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:28 pm

OK some etiquette:
1 complement speaker
2 "but we are really just interested in your company
3 leave card

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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Audley Strange » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:33 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:Perhaps it's just me but I think I see the cause of the issue on this one.

It's about a confusion of roles. Most people see a convention as a social event, as such accept that libidinous shenanigans are going to be part of that.

However, what the complaints seem to be about is the distinction of being approached at a social event as a professional. I think the perception might be that being a professional at an event means that they are working and thus apart from the social aspect of it and thus should be afforded a certain level of professional respect and distance.

I'm not sure that's particularly a bad thing to be honest, but perhaps they shouldn't mingle with the plebs, people are awful.
They do harp on about how she was "at work." Well, most speakers at these conferences don't consider themselves "at work." They do it for fun. Maybe that's the difference.
that's exactly what I'm thinking. However usually at other events the "talent" might do a meet and greet, but keep themselves to themselves. I assume this is not the case at the conventions being criticised and that such lines lines between attendee and "talent" are blurred. If I'm mistaken and harrassment is going on in amongst the speakers and their various coteries separate from the scrum, then that's certainly an issue that should be a concern.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:37 pm

Except of course that hitting on somebody who is 'at work' does not constitute harassment per se, or thousands of barmaids and other personnel in contact with the customers would be raking in millions in suits against customers who hit on them.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by hadespussercats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:02 pm

Robert_S wrote:Back to the original issue though: If you're going to cold proposition a stranger for group sex, dropping a card and walking away seems like the way to go about it.

There's probably a weird moment if you're not interested, but nobody's around to make it actually awkward and embarrassing and you can just toss the card and be done with it. You don't even have to ask for the person to stop for the situation to be over and done with. They've walked away to let you make your decision in your own time and space.
Yeah. Actually, the fact that this couple walked away (which you'd think is the whole point of having a card for that sort of thing-- so you can offer it and walk away) indicates to me that they were not in fact harassing her. It would have been harassment to hand her the card, and then say, "Well? Well? What do you think? Yes? Yes???"
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by Bella Fortuna » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:04 pm

hadespussercats wrote:
Robert_S wrote:Back to the original issue though: If you're going to cold proposition a stranger for group sex, dropping a card and walking away seems like the way to go about it.

There's probably a weird moment if you're not interested, but nobody's around to make it actually awkward and embarrassing and you can just toss the card and be done with it. You don't even have to ask for the person to stop for the situation to be over and done with. They've walked away to let you make your decision in your own time and space.
Yeah. Actually, the fact that this couple walked away (which you'd think is the whole point of having a card for that sort of thing-- so you can offer it and walk away) indicates to me that they were not in fact harassing her. It would have been harassment to hand her the card, and then say, "Well? Well? What do you think? Yes? Yes???"
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by hadespussercats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:04 pm

Robert_S wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:One does wonder how a young blade about town is to proposition a filly these days. Was easy in my day, you just spoke to her father, but now it all seems a terribly fraught walking on egg shells game.
Yes, I'm always up for pointers in this game, Some people come on too strong, and sometimes I apparently I don't come on strong enough. I don't know when to hold her and/or fold her and sometimes I walk away when I out to run!
As long as you never count your money when you're sitting at her table. Most women (of the non-professional sort) would find that offensive.
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead.
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You're just dead people that didn't die yet.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by hadespussercats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:07 pm

Svartalf wrote:
JimC wrote:An over-reaction, perhaps, but I agree with Hades that handing out the card wasn't appropriate in context, and is definitely towards the sleazy end of the spectrum...
if that was a convention, and they'd been in net contact for some time, maybe it WAS in fact the most opportune time to make a move... who knows how long would pass till the next meet?
Well, the fact that it might have been their only chance doesn't make it the right time. Sometimes you just have to let it go. Svartalf. ;)

Besides, they had Facebook contact.
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead.
There are way more dead people, and you're all gonna die
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Like that's mostly what you're ever gonna be.
You're just dead people that didn't die yet.
--Louis C.K.
The green careening planet
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Post by hadespussercats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:08 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Robert_S wrote:
Seth wrote:Sounds like her position should be bent over a table naked with her hands handcuffed behind her for the next meeting. Maybe that would loosen her tight ass up a little.
Yeah, that's kinda creepy... More than kinda actually. I'm going to assume you were illustrating a point unless you say differently.

I usually think very little of her and other women's complaints until I read the bizarre amount of hostile sexism in the reactions. I mean, what is it about women bringing up sexism that turns an astonishing number of my fellow males into stark raving /b/tards?

I think the reason I am slow to see some things is that I ask myself "how would I come to make such a gaffe?". Now it occurs to me that maybe there's a lot more sexually fucked up men than me out there than I might think...
On the Skepchick thread? There were "hostile sexist reactions?" I didn't read any. I did see where any expression of dissent to the assertion that handing the card was a serious incident was squelched and silenced.
Did you actually read what you quoted?
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead.
There are way more dead people, and you're all gonna die
and then you're gonna be dead for way longer than you're alive.
Like that's mostly what you're ever gonna be.
You're just dead people that didn't die yet.
--Louis C.K.
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
so close to annihilation.

Listen. No one listens. Meow.

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