Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line!

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Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line!

Postby Coito ergo sum » Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:01 pm

Alright -- you have to read this one.... this is just amazing ....http://skepchick.org/2012/06/psychology ... ant-woman/

These chicks are a fucking train wreck.

Get this -- one of the Skepchicks, name of "Elyse," was presenting some material at a national conference for a progressive organization, Skepticam Ohio, I think it's called. While there a male and female couple whom she had become acquainted with on Facebook approached her and complimented her presentation. They said, "here is a little something to remember us by..." and handed her a card and left immediately. Elyse looked at the card and saw that it was some kind of swinger's card, saying "let's be friends" and with a picture of the two of them naked. The image, however, does not show much skin. It's the man standing behind the woman with his hands over her breasts. You can't see anything but arms, really. Apparently, it was an invite to participate in sexy times.

This is now the crime of the fucking century, and now everyone must be shocked and outraged or we are "clueless" and "misogynistic" and we just don't "get it." So, instead of tossing the stupid card in the trash and filing it under "wut the fuck" --- she reports it as sexual harassment. Sexual HARASSMENT. LOL.

The fawning Skepchick fans are, of course, uncritically accepting of this premise, and the only two people who wanted to discuss the issue in any detail were banned from the Skepchick cite because they wouldn't simply accept the explanations and positions of Elyse and the other Skpechicks. Really -- take a look at that thread, and see the two people who are banned. Can anyone even for a second see what they did wrong?

Elyse sets down a bunch of rules for us: http://skepchick.org/2012/05/sex-and-the-keynote/

1. You may not desire to have sex with a keynote speaker. You can't even WANT it, she says. That's just not acceptable. Don't even think about it. You are not allowed to "assume" anything, because your thoughts are not free. You must abide by the rules of Skepchick.

2. You may not assume someone else is o.k with your "nakedness" (even if it's only shoulders and arms, apparently, since that's all these two showed -- hands cupped over breasts). I am positive, however, that Elyse's position on whether other people are allowed to be uncomfortable with nakedness depends on some factors. She gets to decide what she's comfortable with, but nobody else is -- if someone expresses discomfort, say, at a woman breastfeeding in public, well, those kinds of people don't get their discomfort respected....lol And, if women want to walk down the street topless -- that's a woman's right, right? But, a picture with people naked where you can't see any naughty bits? Beyond the pale.

3. If you're going to had someone a swinger's card, you must stick around to get the person's answer right then and there. Handing the card and leaving is not acceptable. In other words, she's pissed that the couple did not give her the chance to publicly humiliate them for what they did.

4. A speaker at a conference is now "at work" and you are not allowed to ask them out.

It gets better and better with these Skepchicks. They are just stretching the bounds of ridiculousness to their breaking point.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Tero » Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:52 pm

I lost track. Is she a whiny attention whore?
http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby hadespussercats » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:44 am

I don't know.

I was maid of honor for my friend years ago, and met this couple who were living with one of her oldest friends (she was their pet, I think.)
This was back when I had hair down to my waist, and this couple were long-hair fetish types (even though the guy really should have rethought that when it came to himself-- his hair was scraggly, pulled back into the longest skinny little skanky-looking rattail I'd ever seen. But I digress.)

At the reception, they gave me a business-type card (same sort of thing described in the article, I think) that said "Your hair is beautiful. Keep it long." with their contact info on the other side.

And it was icky. Now, I have no beef whatsoever with their lifestyle. But over the course of the wedding weekend, I had shown them no kind of romantic interest (in fact, this was shortly before J moved in with me, and he was in-town from out-of-state, so I didn't have eyes for anyone else.)

But you know, whatever, I said a quiet yuck to myself and threw the card away.

But attending a wedding is very different from speaking at a conference. Weddings are social events.

I don't think I would have reacted the way Elyse did. But I'm not her. I agree it was inappropriate. I don't think that means it was harrassment, but I wasn't there.

And while I have sympathy with some of Klein's viewpoints, he did do some shady things writing that piece, with sloppy fact-checking and unmarked edits and claiming that this rather particular story was in fact a "Composite" (I agree with Elyse that that seems like an easy out for not having to substantiate bullshit claims.)
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Śiva » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:07 am

Tero wrote:I lost track. Is she a whiny attention whore?


And not a single fuck was given.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby JimC » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:23 am

An over-reaction, perhaps, but I agree with Hades that handing out the card wasn't appropriate in context, and is definitely towards the sleazy end of the spectrum...
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Robert_S » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:49 am

Maybe some people just gotta cast the widest net possible.

I doubt that somewhat sleezy and icky should be classed in the same league as harassing unless the sleaze keeps coming after it is made known that it isn't wanted.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Seth » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:57 am

Sounds like her position should be bent over a table naked with her hands handcuffed behind her for the next meeting. Maybe that would loosen her tight ass up a little.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Robert_S » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:49 am

Seth wrote:Sounds like her position should be bent over a table naked with her hands handcuffed behind her for the next meeting. Maybe that would loosen her tight ass up a little.


Yeah, that's kinda creepy... More than kinda actually. I'm going to assume you were illustrating a point unless you say differently.

I usually think very little of her and other women's complaints until I read the bizarre amount of hostile sexism in the reactions. I mean, what is it about women bringing up sexism that turns an astonishing number of my fellow males into stark raving /b/tards?

I think the reason I am slow to see some things is that I ask myself "how would I come to make such a gaffe?". Now it occurs to me that maybe there's a lot more sexually fucked up men than me out there than I might think...
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Śiva » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:31 am

Seth's comment actually made me laugh. :P

Skepchick and the ilk that infest it really aren't worth much more than a two or three sentence blurb tops. IMHO.

What interests me is the apparent unspoken structure which must, again apparently, be rigidly followed by persons in their social interactions. Apparently some people take offence at what I would call benign approach and I would like to know why. This is a broader question than skepchick's idiosyncrasies.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Animavore » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:16 am

I couldn't care less about SkepChicks but I'm going to post here and tell how little I care about SkepChicks.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Thinking Aloud » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:17 am

Animavore wrote:I couldn't care less about SkepChicks but I'm going to post here and tell how little I care about SkepChicks.

I've barely heard of it/them/her so I'm going to quote someone else's lack of interest and endorse it.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Clinton Huxley » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:23 am

Im going to raise an eyebrow in languid disinterest. In my day, ladies weren't allowed to be sceptical.
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Azathoth » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:41 am

It seems that if you have any sexual interest in someone at one of these conferences the first question you need to ask is are you a skepchick. If the answer if yes you can safely assume they dont want any cock
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Drewish » Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:44 am

Skepchick =

HOW DARE PEOPLE ASK ME TO HAVE SEX!!!! I am deeply offended, and we need to change the culture so that people see that propositioning someone for sex so that they have to bother saying, "No thanks," is sexual harassment! OMG I'm so alone :cry:
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Re: Another Skepchick War! Dr. Marty Klein crossed the line

Postby Robert_S » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:07 am

Back to the original issue though: If you're going to cold proposition a stranger for group sex, dropping a card and walking away seems like the way to go about it.

There's probably a weird moment if you're not interested, but nobody's around to make it actually awkward and embarrassing and you can just toss the card and be done with it. You don't even have to ask for the person to stop for the situation to be over and done with. They've walked away to let you make your decision in your own time and space.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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