Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

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Svartalf
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Svartalf » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:21 am

lordpasternack wrote:
Svartalf wrote:I know what tim did, no venom is too bad for him, may his karma be felt in this very same life.
What are you talking about? The whole point of that paragraph is that Timonen produced evidence apparently showing that he was operating the Store exactly as had been agreed with both Dawkins and Cornwell in 2007.

If you still think he was being a bastard, then you may well have to concede the basic point that he had been doing it with Dawkins' explicit blessing - even if Dawkins couldn't remember the specific agreement reached, three years later.
Sure he kept to his horrendously worded contract... still was a conjob and made not a red penny (or hardly one) for the foundation.

Plus remember, I care not a rat's rear about that, what he did that I care about was fuck up the whole RDF matter. I loved the place back when before he and RD scragged it.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Svartalf » Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:22 am

Făkünamę wrote:I'm not sure Dawkins ever intended to spend his twilight years embroiled in lawsuits with his former lover, son, whatever - Josh.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by lordpasternack » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:19 pm

Svartalf wrote: ... made not a red penny (or hardly one) for the foundation.
And what if that was what was explicitly agreed with both Dawkins and Cornwell in 2007?

Remember - you still haven't seen this "horrendously worded contract". You have no idea what was stated and agreed by which parties. I've been told that Dawkins specifically told Timonen that the Store was Timonen's "baby" - his "for-profit" venture... I'll be able to confirm or deny that when I finally see the court docs.

But let's just say that I'm not under the impression that Timonen was the only, or the worst, conjob within RDFRS... And I am under the impression that Dawkins - for all his preaching about evidence and critical thinking - is a dupe and a goddamn idiot, when it comes to his 'charity'.
Plus remember, I care not a rat's rear about that, what he did that I care about was fuck up the whole RDF matter. I loved the place back when before he and RD scragged it.
Okay - well, so long as we can concede that Timonen was being actively encouraged by people who are still on the RDFRS staff:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1lPLttSq ... Syb5e/edit

And again - the above was sent to me by Chalkers - who says it was originally sent by Cornwell to Timonen, and then forwarded by Cornwell to Chalkley to "bring him in on the discussion".
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Svartalf » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:31 pm

Let them lawyer each other and themselves into ruin.
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by lordpasternack » Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:42 pm

Svartalf wrote:Let them lawyer each other and themselves into ruin.
I pity Dawkins in this, though. I pity him. He just hasn't a shred of a clue - despite maintaining this facade of hardnosed scepticism and savvy. It's shocking...
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by lordpasternack » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:35 pm

lordpasternack wrote:
A lawyer such as the one he hired in California would normally provide detailed reports of everything that was done and send copies of every document to Dawkins. Most lawyers have clients review and approve all documents that are filed with the court prior to the documents being filed, at least when there is time.
I daresay Richard had his staff deal with that. Again - not out of character.
It would have had to have been willfully ignored.
It would not be out of character if Richard did exactly this - while leaving everything with the rest of RDFRS and his legal team.
And I'm proud to say I surmised all of the above before reading page 13 of the Motion for Terminating Sanctions.
TermSanctions-p13.png
:smug:
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by lordpasternack » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:44 pm

Just posting this here - for anyone following this thread.

The First Amended Complaint of Josh Timonen's current lawsuit against RDFRS et al is now available, here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1pF9EuUE ... j5cxJ/edit

Of particular interest are paragraphs 22-24 (pages 7&8), which read:
22. All products sold in the Upper Branch Store publicized the issues and cause(s) supported and advanced by Dawkins and RDF but Dawkins made clear that, in Dawkins’ own words, the Upper Branch Store was “not directly concerned with RDF[]’ activities.”

23. At all times hereunder, Plaintiff was an independent business (independent from RDF, et al.), and Mr. Timonen autonomously ran and operated the Upper Branch Store from a location within Los Angeles, California.

24. Timonen proposed to Dawkins that Timonen could donate certain profits of the Upper Branch Store operation to RDF. In response, on or about July 25, 2007, Dawkins emailed Timonen in Los Angeles: “it’s your baby, your profits, your tax . . . as for whether Upper Branch should make a donation to RDF[], I don’t think you should feel any moral obligations in that regard.”


My emphasis.

I'm now seeking the Exhibits of those particular emails referenced.
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by DaveDodo007 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:30 pm

lordpasternack wrote:Just posting this here - for anyone following this thread.

The First Amended Complaint of Josh Timonen's current lawsuit against RDFRS et al is now available, here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/1pF9EuUE ... j5cxJ/edit

Of particular interest are paragraphs 22-24 (pages 7&8), which read:
22. All products sold in the Upper Branch Store publicized the issues and cause(s) supported and advanced by Dawkins and RDF but Dawkins made clear that, in Dawkins’ own words, the Upper Branch Store was “not directly concerned with RDF[]’ activities.”

23. At all times hereunder, Plaintiff was an independent business (independent from RDF, et al.), and Mr. Timonen autonomously ran and operated the Upper Branch Store from a location within Los Angeles, California.

24. Timonen proposed to Dawkins that Timonen could donate certain profits of the Upper Branch Store operation to RDF. In response, on or about July 25, 2007, Dawkins emailed Timonen in Los Angeles: “it’s your baby, your profits, your tax . . . as for whether Upper Branch should make a donation to RDF[], I don’t think you should feel any moral obligations in that regard.”


My emphasis.

I'm now seeking the Exhibits of those particular emails referenced.


No offence LP this question is just for clarification, are you friends with Timonen? Or even friends with his friends?
We should be MOST skeptical of ideas we like because we are sufficiently skeptical of ideas that we don't like. Penn Jillette.

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by lordpasternack » Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:57 pm

I have become friendly with Andrew Chalkley - who remains Josh's business partner, as his second job. I don't speak to Timonen - but I do read and pay attention to the legal docs and the evidence that comes out.

And that note - you might also be interested in seeing Chalkley's resignation from RDFRS, and Dawkins' responses to the grievances expressed by Chalkley upon his resignation, here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 8#p1149638

Even if you don't like either Chalkers or Timonen - you can still gawp at Richard's apparent naivety, and the way the substantive evidence looks, on their side.
Then they for sudden joy did weep,
And I for sorrow sung,
That such a king should play bo-peep,
And go the fools among.
Prithee, nuncle, keep a schoolmaster that can teach
thy fool to lie: I would fain learn to lie.

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Jason » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:13 am

I have loads of dirt.. if you decide to become 'friendly' with me. :naughty:

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Bella Fortuna » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:15 am

Făkünamę wrote:I have loads of dirt.. if you decide to become 'friendly' with me. :naughty:
But.... it's all under your fingernails. :console:
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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Jason » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:16 am

Shhh! You're ruining my chances!

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Re: Dawkins sues Josh Timonen 2

Post by Bella Fortuna » Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:18 am

:pardon:

:leave:
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