Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

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Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Atheist-Lite » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:06 pm

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... nts/39637/

Richard Dawkins Gets into a Comments War with Feminists

Opening Serve: Richard Dawkins made an unexpected appearance in the comments section of biologist PZ Myers' post at Scienceblogs.com last week. Myers was commenting on Rebecca Watson's recent experience being propositioned in a hotel elevator by a male attendee of a conference at which Watson had just spoken in Dublin. Dawkins got himself into hot water by commenting in the form of a sarcastic letter to a Muslim woman, pointing out how trivial Watson's experience in the elevator was compared to the abuses Muslim women deal with on a daily basis. "Stop whining will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and...yawn...don't tell me again, I know you aren't allowed to drive a car, and can't leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you'll be stoned to death if you commit adultery," he wrote. "But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with."

(continued)

All that free thinking gone to the dawks head? I'm surprised this simmering story isn't already being analysed here? :fp:

http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/ ... hannellink
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Ayaan » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:11 pm

I think this is another case of Dawkins opening his mouth before he knows all the facts. There may also be a touch of 'Ivory Tower Syndrome' too.
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Feck » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:24 pm

Feminism has gone too far when all men are treated like rapists in waiting . When speaking to a woman is a crime if she decides she doesn't like you .Are we really meant to think that all women see all men as rapists and an escape route must be available for them before a conversation attempted ?

I wonder if the man looked creepy ,you know had a beard or some other obvious sign that he was about to assault her ?
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby devogue » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:26 pm

From what I can see, the man asked her back to his room for a coffee or a drink. She describes this behaviour as ["sexist and damaging".

What a fucking ridiculous woman. Dawkins is absolutely right to rip the piss out of her.
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Geoff » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:28 pm

devogue wrote:From what I can see, the man asked her back to his room for a coffee or a drink. She describes this behaviour as ["sexist and damaging".

What a fucking ridiculous woman. Dawkins is absolutely right to rip the piss out of her.


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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Feck » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:40 pm

Maybe in her lecture she had been looking at him when extolling how evil men are and he misinterpreted ?

Maybe the guy said some thing sleazy with nasty leer and she was right to feel uncomfortable alone in a lift with him , but the assumption that his behaviour was damaging is a bit like being offended and not taking any responsibility for you own feelings ...... It's easy to confuse ' I felt like this ' with 'HE Made me feel like this ' .
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby devogue » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:41 pm

Feck wrote:Maybe in her lecture she had been looking at him when extolling how evil men are and he misinterpreted ?

Maybe the guy said some thing sleazy with nasty leer and she was right to feel uncomfortable alone in a lift with him , but the assumption that his behaviour was damaging is a bit like being offended and not taking any responsibility for you own feelings ...... It's easy to confuse ' I felt like this ' with 'HE Made me feel like this ' .


He's Irish.

He was either...

a) Winding her up.

b) Trying his luck - sure, you never know.

Fucking frigid harpie. :hehe:
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Gallstones » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:46 pm

I wonder if a woman might not be a bit over the top defensive if she had been harassed or assaulted at any time recently; or say, raped or molested ever?
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby devogue » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:50 pm

Gallstones wrote:I wonder if a woman might not be a bit over the top defensive if she had been assaulted at any time recently; or say, raped or molested ever?


Assault, rape and molestation are horrendous, despicable crimes which certainly objectify women.

Asking a woman to your room for a coffee then accepting that she has said no is an absolute non-event.
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Gallstones » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:54 pm

Dawkin's remark was insensitive and pig ignorant.
In one fell swoop he ridiculed every woman who has ever suffered sexual or physical assault.
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Gallstones » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:56 pm

devogue wrote:
Gallstones wrote:I wonder if a woman might not be a bit over the top defensive if she had been assaulted at any time recently; or say, raped or molested ever?


Assault, rape and molestation are horrendous, despicable crimes which certainly objectify women.

Asking a woman to your room for a coffee then accepting that she has said no is an absolute non-event.


You didn't read what I wrote.
Objectify? Try demean, dehumanize. Objectify is a bit pale of an adjective to describe sexual assault.

It changes you forever.
But so fucking what, so many others suffer more. And if you are still around to whine then count your blessings because there are others who were murdered along with the assault.
Last edited by Gallstones on Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Xamonas Chegwé » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:58 pm

I met Rebecca Watson when she gave a skeptics in the pub talk in Nottingham. Nice girl (and a very good talk) but she does tend to paint everything with a feminist paintbrush a little much for my liking.

Being sexually propositioned by someone you are not attracted to is NOT an attack. Even if they persist after your first, polite refusal, it is still NOT an attack. EVEN if they become verbally abusive and accuse you of being stuck-up/frigid/etc., it is still NOT an attack (although, in that instance, the man is clearly a dickhead!) If they attempt to initiate intimate, physical contact without any invitation, or following direct refusal, THEN (and only then) does it become an attack.

There is a big difference between a pest and a rapist, Becky love. Now go make me a sandwich. :shifty:


Dawkins' response was insensitive and boorish though. In fact, leave that sandwich, Becky, let the Dick do it!
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby devogue » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:58 pm

Gallstones wrote:Dawkin's remark was insensitive and pig ignorant.
In one fell swoop he ridiculed every woman who has ever suffered sexual or physical assault.


No he didn't. He ridiculed one woman who got ridiculously upset and hissy about a man asking her to come to his room for a cup of coffee.

Here's exactly what he wrote:

Dear Muslima

Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don't tell me yet again, I know you aren't allowed to drive a car, and you can't leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you'll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.

Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep"chick", and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn't lay a finger on her, but even so . . .

And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby devogue » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:01 pm

Gallstones wrote:
devogue wrote:
Gallstones wrote:I wonder if a woman might not be a bit over the top defensive if she had been assaulted at any time recently; or say, raped or molested ever?


Assault, rape and molestation are horrendous, despicable crimes which certainly objectify women.

Asking a woman to your room for a coffee then accepting that she has said no is an absolute non-event.


You didn't read what I wrote.
Objectify? Try demean, dehumanize. Objectify is a bit pale of an adjective to describe sexual assault.

It changes you forever.


I wasn't trying to play down sexual assault - IMO "objectify" is a strong adjective but, yes, demean and dehumanise are terms I agree with completely.
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Re: Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

Postby Gallstones » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:02 pm

devogue wrote:
Gallstones wrote:Dawkin's remark was insensitive and pig ignorant.
In one fell swoop he ridiculed every woman who has ever suffered sexual or physical assault.


No he didn't. He ridiculed one woman who got ridiculously upset and hissy about a man asking her to come to his room for a cup of coffee.

Here's exactly what he wrote:

Dear Muslima

Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don't tell me yet again, I know you aren't allowed to drive a car, and you can't leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you'll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.

Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep"chick", and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn't lay a finger on her, but even so . . .

And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

Richard


And he is still an ass for doing it because he felt he could.
When Richard Dawkins is sexually assaulted, I'll give his comments about these situations some credence. Until then he's an insensitive, arrogant, pig ignorant ass.

I guess his public ridicule of this woman is not excessive, not out of line, not an overreaction to something that is really none of his business?
Last edited by Gallstones on Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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