The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

[colubridae]

And just to remind you dear Robert, they threatened to release personal information.

You're full of shit. "They" did no such thing.

One person, a name no one recognized, threatened to do that in PZ's comments, everyone jumped on them and the comment was deleted.

It's lies like that one that are perpetuating the problem.

But don't let the truth get in the way of a good bout of self righteousness...

It’s not a lie it was posted there!!! I would be lying if it wasn’t posted on your precious blog.

I don’t care if it was a name no-one recognised. And deleting it is not the right thing to do. It should be left there for all to see. If you delete it, what else are you hiding that I haven’t seen. If you adopt censure then I cannot be sure how honest you are. Nothing here is deleted (except by ‘forced’ outside influence and then only when FtB/A+/Skepshit got involved).

What’s more you are being deliberately selective. The threat was made in A+shit rules as well. I saw it, it may have been deleted it since.

Even to the extent of monitoring other fora to the suggestion of starting a website specifically to make such revelations.

What about the “rationalia stinks like the rotting corpse of a dead baby” presumably that was someone no-one else recognised as well.

I've explained to you why the examples you've posted are not really representative of the situation, all of them being taken out of context, misrepresented or pure fantasy.

You want to talk about creationist tactics? You've obviously picked up the quotemining method....good for you!

Priceless. Greatest poe this century.

Every single one of dozens of examples just happens to be ‘not really representative’
Every single one of dozens of examples just happens to be ‘taken out of context’,

Though I have to ask - exactly what ‘context’ is threatening to reveal personal information (a la a+ rules) appropriate?

Pure fantasy

They were direct quotes FFS. Now who is lying?


You don’t seem to want to respond to my ‘apology’ points. Is there a problem with that?

Pappa aplogised for his joke. That apology was rejected out of hand. Now you hold up carrier’s ‘apology’ as a thing of beauty to be admired and cherished.
Double standards. Meh. Go look in the mirror.

This was posted as a response to your lame excuse for dickcarrier’s crazy.
Please let me know:-

Are you acknowledging that you have double standards?
Are you acknowledging the lameness of your excuse?

Or are you, perish the thought, being selective in your response. i.e. only dealing with complaints where a lame response is available and ignoring arguments where none is available?

Of course you can refuse to respond but your lack of response will be there for all to see.

Can I ask you a personal question. “why are you bothering?” It’s only making you look absurd. Have you been ‘assigned’ the task of propagandising rationalia?
It’s just that with so much “right and justice” on your side I’m surprised there’s only one of you (left) here still trying to ‘right wrongs’.

[Twoflower]

If we're talking equal representation of the sexes, a US Census report in 2006 showed that there were 143000 dads who stayed at home to look after the kids, versus 5.6 million mums in 2005. That's around 2.5% of stay-at-home parents represented by men. Let's have a bit of equal representation here too - I feel entirely isolated and alone in this role, and ostracised and treated as second-class by the females around me.

This is only semi-serious, but is something that all this equality discussion is apparently avoiding like an elephant in the room: the effect of procreation on a parent's career, income, choices, salary, seniority, success, etc.

Meeky mentioned feeling the same way a while back on facebook. I agree with Robert, start a thread on it, it could become a very interesting discussion.

[colubridae]

If we're talking equal representation of the sexes, a US Census report in 2006 showed that there were 143000 dads who stayed at home to look after the kids, versus 5.6 million mums in 2005. That's around 2.5% of stay-at-home parents represented by men. Let's have a bit of equal representation here too - I feel entirely isolated and alone in this role, and ostracised and treated as second-class by the females around me.

Those bitches

This is only semi-serious, but is something that all this equality discussion is apparently avoiding like an elephant in the room: the effect of procreation on a parent's career, income, choices, salary, seniority, success, etc.

Should have taken my offer when you had the chance.

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 6#p1263659

[Pappa]

If we're talking equal representation of the sexes, a US Census report in 2006 showed that there were 143000 dads who stayed at home to look after the kids, versus 5.6 million mums in 2005. That's around 2.5% of stay-at-home parents represented by men. Let's have a bit of equal representation here too - I feel entirely isolated and alone in this role, and ostracised and treated as second-class by the females around me.

This is only semi-serious, but is something that all this equality discussion is apparently avoiding like an elephant in the room: the effect of procreation on a parent's career, income, choices, salary, seniority, success, etc.

I worked part time for a while when my son was younger. It definitely feels quite difficult to join the parents' clique at school as a guy.

[hadespussercats]

If we're talking equal representation of the sexes, a US Census report in 2006 showed that there were 143000 dads who stayed at home to look after the kids, versus 5.6 million mums in 2005. That's around 2.5% of stay-at-home parents represented by men. Let's have a bit of equal representation here too - I feel entirely isolated and alone in this role, and ostracised and treated as second-class by the females around me.

This is only semi-serious, but is something that all this equality discussion is apparently avoiding like an elephant in the room: the effect of procreation on a parent's career, income, choices, salary, seniority, success, etc.

I talked about it in my previous post.

And actually, I read a fair number of father blogs (male mommy bloggers) and they do seem to feel ostracised and treated as second-class citizens. Not to mention that they're portrayed as bumbling fools in commercials and sitcoms.

So... I don't know-- were you being serious? You sounded sarcastic.

[Audley Strange]

My friend has a daughter and both he and his wife work part time so they can both look after her and importantly I think, each other. It seems from what he tells me that there are a few couples at the nursery she goes to who do the same thing. They live without needless extravagance, but not poorly , comfortably.

We had a discussion about this and what he said is that by doing this, they are content.

Now surely something like that sounds more like a way forward that keeping or swapping traditional roles.

[Bella Fortuna]

My friend has a daughter and both he and his wife work part time so they can both look after her and importantly I think, each other. It seems from what he tells me that there are a few couples at the nursery she goes to who do the same thing. They live without needless extravagance, but not poorly , comfortably.

We had a discussion about this and what he said is that by doing this, they are content.

Now surely something like that sounds more like a way forward that keeping or swapping traditional roles.

Certainly seems a workable solution in some cases, and something that's a better balance.

The main problem with something like that in the US is that one must work full-time in order to get health insurance.

[Audley Strange]

Is that a clause or is it just so expensive?

[Audley Strange]

Someone led me to this...

http://musingsbysoggymog.blogspot.co.uk ... -plus.html

This seems common. I think it's time that we encouraged women to speak out about their "harrassment" from Atheism Plus supporters.

I clearly cannot organise such a thing having a dick, (yeah I seddit) however I think it would be interesting to catalogue the ladies who have been subject to their contempt.

Am I serious?

The viewer decides...

[Bella Fortuna]

Is that a clause or is it just so expensive?

Buying health insurance on your own as an individual is extraordinarily expensive (hundreds or even thousands per month) so most people have to get it through their employer, and most do not offer it to less than full-time employees. There are exceptions, of course, but usually employers will try to not offer insurance if they can get away with it as it is a huge expense to them as well.

[Audley Strange]

So it's expense and am I right in thinking Obama's heroic healthcare decision was to make it mandatory?

[Rum]

This is in the Atheist plus Forum rules...

"Use trigger warnings: Disturbing content can trigger flashbacks and panic attacks in some people. Use the HiddenText tag to hide such content".

[Thinking Aloud]

If we're talking equal representation of the sexes, a US Census report in 2006 showed that there were 143000 dads who stayed at home to look after the kids, versus 5.6 million mums in 2005. That's around 2.5% of stay-at-home parents represented by men. Let's have a bit of equal representation here too - I feel entirely isolated and alone in this role, and ostracised and treated as second-class by the females around me.

This is only semi-serious, but is something that all this equality discussion is apparently avoiding like an elephant in the room: the effect of procreation on a parent's career, income, choices, salary, seniority, success, etc.

I talked about it in my previous post.

Sorry - I must have missed it. I only brought it up as people were throwing statistics around and bringing up the "under-representation" of women in various roles, without any mention (that I saw at least) of the most common reason women don't follow careers in the same way men do.

And actually, I read a fair number of father blogs (male mommy bloggers) and they do seem to feel ostracised and treated as second-class citizens. Not to mention that they're portrayed as bumbling fools in commercials and sitcoms.

So... I don't know-- were you being serious? You sounded sarcastic.

Semi-serious. I'm in that role at the moment (working sporadically part time), and I've had both good and not-so-good experiences in what is definitely a female-dominated sector.

Yes - food for another thread, but just something I thought would be worth airing here too.

[Rum]

I have deleted my link to the Atheist+ forum and asked them to delete my membership if that is possible. At my age strokes are to be avoided if at all possible..

[Bella Fortuna]

A wise move. I start feeling stressed and nauseous if I read too much there...