Announcement about RDF Part 2.

[Onyx8]

Well said Gilthanass. (I'm old too.)

[I'm With Stupid]

I'm a member of another charity website, and they always ask the opinions of their users whenever they go for a big change (even just in appearance). I guess that's the difference between someone who understands how to use the internet, and someone who doesn't.

[Katherine]

Can't figure out how to get a screen shot posted (my work computer has a LOT of blocks on it), but I've reported the latest post by RD here as "Preaching, Witnessing or Prostlytising" - along with the following comment:

This is a very inaccurate, one-sided view of what happened in the past 24 hours, and completely ignores the major hurt done to so many who considered RD Forums a home. It is evident that Josh's opinion is the only one which matters, and that the hard work done by the moderators and administrators - the REAL work keeping the old forum running - was not only unappreciated, but probably completely ignored.

The totally unprofessional and cowardly way in which the old forum was closed generated understandable anger - that a few have chosen to vent in inappropriate ways shouldn't be taken as justification of the original acts.

I've used the text above in my report, and added that in my opinion that the way Josh has acted in this manner, crushing dissenting opinion and not providing a platform with which to air one's grievances is acting no better than the religions and faith bodies the RDF is trying to hold to account. I stated that it was obvious that Richard thinks he is God, passing down diktats from his ivory tower to Josh 'Yes-man' Timonen. In addition, I requested that Richard should try very hard to understand the concept of office and workplace banter.

I signed off by saying "Goodbye. This hasn't been pleasant" and that I would shortly be donating all my Dawkins books to the nearest charity shop.

[PsychoSerenity]

RD has spoken ... supporting Josh all the way:

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... 7&t=110356

It's more evident than ever that he doesn't understand either the home he used to host, nor the reason so many felt betrayed and angry.

It seems he either doesn't give a shit about the people that have been hurt by this - in which case I lose respect for him as a person - or he simply hasn't bothered to find out the truth of the matter, blindly accepting whatever Josh told him - in which case I lose respect for him as a scientist. Either way, it's a very disappointing response from him.

[macdoc]

but it also sold books (personally, I was an atheist looking for a forum, found RD.net, and only then read about his books and bought some).

I for one will not be purchasing anymore Dawkin's books.

The buck stops with him for this and my bucks stop with me....and I spend thousands on books each year and write extensive reviews.....

Dr. Dawkins will no longer be recommended reading....or purchase.

There have to be consequences and his is the name on the line - no underling can take the hit for this atrocious treatment of people on the community - mods in particular and those losing their personal records and contributions....

a 10k poster... :pissed:

[macdoc]

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtop ... 7&t=110356

Richard's reply

So he punishes hundreds of volunteer posters with thousands of hours of effort because he got dissed by a few.....
pretty fragile ego....pretty poor judgement.

There is NO excuse...

[aca]

Come out, and be counted - said Richard

85,000 did and now he tells me that that's not what he had in mind and i can go fuck myself if i don't like it.

fuck this

[Katherine]

My bold.

It seems he either doesn't give a shit about the people that have been hurt by this - in which case I lose respect for him as a person - or he simply hasn't bothered to find out the truth of the matter, blindly accepting whatever Josh told him - in which case I lose respect for him as a scientist. Either way, it's a very disappointing response from him.

Blindly accepting whatever Josh told him = blindly accepting what preachers in pulpits say?

[Agrippina]

I feel the same way about RD that I do about most people that have followers, I don't follow. I like, or dislike, people based on my personal knowledge of them and even if I don't like the person if what they makes sense and is interesting, I'll listen.

I was an unbeliever long before I'd heard the word 'atheist' or 'agnostic.' Believing that any human was more human or that anyone was 'better' than me has just never make sense. I don't bow to queens and princes and I don't idolise celebrities, even great ones like Nelson Mandela.

So for me it was merely that I like the place because there was so much that was interesting to read there and it seemed that there wasn't the kind of silly rules about open-mindedness and free speech that I've found on other places on the internet. So reading the reasons for the closure, especially after the long discussion about whether the personal attack rules should be changed really came as a shock. For what it's worth I'm here now and I don't think I'll bother to go back there, even if they revive the place and invite us all back. I'm quite happy to stay here where I feel fairly comfortable after only one day.

I don't have any anti feelings about RD, I've read some of his books and they don't say anything I hadn't already figured out for myself or read elsewhere. Possibly the biology and science are more complicated or more consolidated but to be honest, I'm not really interested in learning more about what I already know and what I can pick up on the internet or on TV for the few years I have left to tell believers that they've got the wrong end of the stick. So I'm here and I'll stay for as long as either I last or this site lasts or until someone tells me to push off because I'm boring.

[Wiðercora]

What is now to be done about the proposed Book of RDF?

[HughMcB]

FYI I posted this on PZ's blog...

Posted by: HughMcB Author Profile Page | February 24, 2010 3:40 PM

Just to get one thing clear....

This is the order in which events happened at RDF (I was there for the whole thing);

- Notification given to all members that RDF Forum was to close in 30 days, new "Discussion Board" would be highly regulated, new threads had to be pre-approved, any "chit-chit" posts which were deemed not valuable would be deleted. Members told not to try to migrate to another forum or promote alternatives. Users told to back up any posts they needed before it was all going to be deleted (despite the forum search function being down for months)

- Thread started by members to voice outcry, this was within Forum rules. Tensions were high but this was disillusionment rather than hostility.

- Mods tell members that they had no hand in any of this (as the masses were getting restless) and provide the pm they received to show that they were as in the dark, and more importantly completely disrespected, as the rest of us. They were essentially told "we don't need you anymore, don't let the door hit you on the way out"

- Josh rides in on his white horse, shuts down the entire website, deletes all dissent from the Forum and any (within Forum rules) criticism. Communication between members was cut, many of whom were unaware as to events or didn't know how to contact each other. Now users couldn't even track their own posts as they were shut out, now way to search any posts at all, by any means other than dicing through the whole forum.

- Josh deletes the mod Mazille and member CJ for their part in the criticism (Mazille for posting the pm and CJ for criticizing the treatment of mods on the RDF front page). nearly 20,000 posts lost by these two alone who were both high profile, high quality content posters.

- Members started to find each other on another website and slowly getting the word out to those who were wondering WTF was going on, while simultaneously furiously trying to back-up the Forum so that the couple of million strong user posts that were used as an educational database of hard science and wonderful creative ideas and knowledge.

- Josh continues to delete posts and prevents users from changing their profiles to indicate to others where we had all gone, mass censorship was underway. Even the logs of Josh's activities were deleted and recycle bins emptied so no trace of these could ever be recovered.

- Tensions mount on alternate forum where many RDF-ers gather, the dispicable behaviour by Josh and disrespect to the moderation team and members is voiced (and yes we did use some f-ing crude language)

- Finally Dawkins speaks out after numerous pleas from site staff (or should I say ex-staff) and members alike to stop the madness. This was met with essesntially the statement "My Joshie's a lovely boy and you've all been very mean to him, you should be ashamed, I'm glad I kicked you all to the curb now"

- New developments pending

On a personal note I would like to say I'm absolutely appauled at the mistreatment of RD's loyal fans by both Josh, and himself.

Tell me Richard, will the money saved in ditching the Forum be worth the losses incurred by s#$tting all over your biggest contributors?

What 85,000 ex-members x $0 ?

For a full detail of what happened read Peter Harrison's blog on the matter (Google it).

Thank you,
HughMcB

[life]

What is now to be done about the proposed Book of RDF?

Apart from the drama, posts would have to be rewritten so that RD(F) cannot claim any copyrights.

[virphen]

The only problem with the Hugh is that everything is attributed to Josh, whereas to be fair we have no idea how much was him and how much was Chalkers (sp?).

[laklak]

Goodness me, I've obviously deeply offended one of the finest evolutionary biologists of all time by comparing one of his employees to a suppurating rat's rectum. Perhaps the "rhino's twat" bit was a bit OTT? Maybe "rhino's ass" would have been more appropriate, more in keeping with the original metaphor.

In any case, mea culpa. I can only offer this sincere and heartfelt apology:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mI7ldxcio0&NR=1[/youtube]

[HughMcB]

The only problem with the Hugh is that everything is attributed to Josh, whereas to be fair we have no idea how much was him and how much was Chalkers (sp?).

Chalkers works directly for Josh, no? Josh is the final word in tech., he's responsible.