The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

[colubridae]

Quiet, you! You're going to get the hose again!

Unfortunately her spelling is a bit off, she meant 'the horse again'

[Rum]

Women are still paid less than men. Women have less political power and are less represented in senior positions. They have a worse deal on the whole than men in many respects - certainly financially, so there is still some ways to go. Which is not to say there hasn't been a great deal of progress. Not to mention the position of women in much of the rest of the world.

I should stop speaking on behalf of the girls though.

Well I've pointed out the problems with regards to women in political positions, even given quota's and invitations and practically begging them to get involved, from all major parties in the U.K. The interest does not appear to be there. Perhaps it's the imagined hostile atmosphere that is commonly projected. Perhaps what we need is to do what they do in the olympics though and separate the sexes in such competitive atmospheres. We could have women's government, which women pay their taxes to and we could have men's government. Woman's finance capitalism and men's finance capitalism. Or perhaps the interest is not there. Anyway why do women need to be represented in senior positions exactly? If it is a private company surely you can't be saying we should be forcing them to hire women for positions that they might find a man better for?

I am beginning to have some sympathy with the conceptual model of privilege...

The simple fact is that men still have more power. Perhaps women don't want it, but we don't really know that do we?

[Sean Hayden]

[Bella Fortuna]

:twisted:

[Audley Strange]

That's hilarious Sean.

[Audley Strange]

Women are still paid less than men. Women have less political power and are less represented in senior positions. They have a worse deal on the whole than men in many respects - certainly financially, so there is still some ways to go. Which is not to say there hasn't been a great deal of progress. Not to mention the position of women in much of the rest of the world.

I should stop speaking on behalf of the girls though.

Well I've pointed out the problems with regards to women in political positions, even given quota's and invitations and practically begging them to get involved, from all major parties in the U.K. The interest does not appear to be there. Perhaps it's the imagined hostile atmosphere that is commonly projected. Perhaps what we need is to do what they do in the olympics though and separate the sexes in such competitive atmospheres. We could have women's government, which women pay their taxes to and we could have men's government. Woman's finance capitalism and men's finance capitalism. Or perhaps the interest is not there. Anyway why do women need to be represented in senior positions exactly? If it is a private company surely you can't be saying we should be forcing them to hire women for positions that they might find a man better for?

I am beginning to have some sympathy with the conceptual model of privilege...

The simple fact is that men still have more power. Perhaps women don't want it, but we don't really know that do we?

No clearly some women do want power, clearly. We have had women in positions of power all over the globe, historically to the extent we cannot dismiss it as trivial. However those women have not somehow encouraged that to spread across the community of women. Even if they were 100% accurate in saying that politics was an "old boys" culture where women were treated like shit, how the fuck is that going to attract more women in. It's like trying to appeal to homophobes to go to a club by saying look "it's a gay disco and it's pretty hardcore mental, you're likely to get ruffied and spitroasted for a youtube video, where are you going???"

So clearly those women in power were not and are not saying that. So yes the simple fact is that, in some areas of the public and private establishment, men outnumber women. We know that both women in power and men in power have been attempting since the mid eighties to woo more women into politics and it has not happened. I do not think they are being discouraged by men or powerful women (other than perhaps a general revulsion at politics) and I don't think there is a perception that it is a male culture (if you watch BBC parliament, there's not parity but there are a fair number of women in government and in parliament).

So if it is not disinterest that is stopping them, what could it be Rum?

[Gerald McGrew]

I am beginning to have some sympathy with the conceptual model of privilege...

The simple fact is that men still have more power. Perhaps women don't want it, but we don't really know that do we?

I recognize the concept of privilege and by that concept I am a good example of it. I'm a white male born into a solidly middle class family, who earns an above-average wage in a professional career. Due to that status, I enjoy certain privileges others (not just women) do not.

When I was in college and got caught by the cops with weed, they just told me to go somewhere else. Had I been a minority in a low-class neighborhood, I'd have been hauled in, charged, and likely given a jail sentence, which would have even further degraded my future prospects. I honestly have no idea how much of a difference being a female would have made in most of my life. I'm in the sciences, and many of my colleagues are female.

So anyways...I'm aware of privilege and that I generally have it. Ok....now what?

[Twoflower]

I've always thought one way to show men and women are equal in the states at least is to require both men and women to sign up for the draft when they turn 18.

[Rum]

Why don't you pop over to the Atheist + forum and ask for suggestions?

I don't want to dismiss this exchange but I really do feel that in the absence of a female voice here we are at best using guesswork?

..which is n invitation...

[Twoflower]

Female here! Just don't like debating.

[rachelbean]

I've been following the thread the whole time and have said what I think of everything as much as I feel I need to. There have been plenty of females voicing their opinion, and since 99% of the time what I would say is being said by someone else (male and females, and probably more articulately than it would be by me), I'd rather just keep reading...

[Audley Strange]

Why don't you pop over to the Atheist + forum and ask for suggestions?

I don't want to dismiss this exchange but I really do feel that in the absence of a female voice here we are at best using guesswork?

..which is n invitation...

No, they're fucking bananas. Other than that, Fair point.

[Rum]

Ok then. Unfortunate tely I have now consumed a bottle of red wine and therefore unable to debate in any coherent fashion. He he.

[Pappa]

Why don't you pop over to the Atheist + forum and ask for suggestions?

I don't want to dismiss this exchange but I really do feel that in the absence of a female voice here we are at best using guesswork?

..which is n invitation...

There were also several female voices in the other topics around the same subject. I found Mogz's contributions particularly interesting.

[Robert_S]

Female here! Just don't like debating.

Chill Girl