Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

[DaveDodo007]

The wage gap is not debunked. It is real. At least here in Canada.

It is also possible to measure the gender wage gap on the basis of hourly wages. The most recent Statistics Canada data (2011) shows that the gender wage gap in Ontario is 26% for full–time, full–year workers. This means that for every $1.00 earned by a male worker, a female worker earns 74 cents.

Link please as I'm sure Canada has some sort of equal pay act.

Hmmm.

In 1956, the federal Cabinet makes a declaration of equal wages. The government creates a policy wherein women are entitled to be paid the same wage as men for similar work. In other words, the Female Employees Equal Pay Act makes discrimination in wages on account of sex against the law.

http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/en/timePortals/ ... 71mile.asp

[Jason]

http://www.payequity.gov.on.ca/en/about ... agegap.php

[DaveDodo007]

http://www.payequity.gov.on.ca/en/about ... agegap.php

I can see a huge flaw in their methodology right here.

"Were there sectors that the Pay Equity Office was specifically examining?

No, the Wage Gap Pilot Program was not designed to target specific sectors but intended to cover all Ontario workplaces."

So it is the usual bullshit of taking wage/salary averages of the sexes and not taking into account women's career choices compared to men's.

[Jason]

They account for that. Read the entire thing.

[DaveDodo007]

They account for that. Read the entire thing.

They simply don't issues like part time work, maternity leave, experience, qualifications and working less hours are over looked.

If any women is getting paid less for doing the exact same job then she can sue her employer as it is illegal.

[Jason]

Illegal, but it still happens. That's why it's an issue.

[Forty Two]

It rarely happens. Dave is right. If women could be hired to do the same job as men for 25% less pay, the employers would hire them in droves. Imagine being the company manager or President who cut company wage expenses by 25% and hired more women at the same time. That person would be on the cover of several magazines, and lauded as a hero of diversity in the workplace, the advancement of women and superb fiscal management at the same time. Forbes would be doing feature stories, and the New York Times would be shouting it from the rooftops.

The fact of the matter is, if you look at the wages in a given job -- check out person at the supermarket, for example, the hourly wages are the same for men and women. The only difference arises when men work longer hours than women, and take less time off. Of course, they earn more money. That's the kind of thing that accounts for the difference.

The reason you only see generalized statistics on this issue, and not stats focusing on specific jobs, is that if you look at specific jobs and compare apples to apples -- a woman data entry clerk and a man data entry clerk, or a woman pizza delivery person and a man pizza delivery person, they get paid the same rates of pay.

If women were often paid less for the same job with equal qualifications and experience, the equal employment opportunity commission and department of labor in the US and the Canadian equivalent would be citing and fining employers consistently. They accept charges of discrimination with no filing fees and no lawyers necessary to be hired by the complaining person. They get the employer's payroll records for several years and compare the rates of pay. If women are paid less, they look to see if there is any discrimination. And, they fine the employer. They want to fine the employer. They are tasked with fining the employer. They are purposefully created to nail employers for discrimination and wage violations.

The notion that women are paid substantially less for the same job given the same qualifications and experience is without any evidentiary support

[Jason]

Rarely? That government commission I linked to estimates that the wage gap is not only 74 cents on the dollar they estimate that pure sexual discrimination accounts for 15% of it. That's not 'rarely' that's as common as sales tax.

[Forty Two]

The real gap is not between men and women doing the same job. It's between the different jobs that men and women take. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/arc ... ap/276367/

Still, inequalities persist. Comparing men and women job-by-job conceals the fact that men still dominate many of the highest-paying jobs. PayScale studied more than 120 occupation categories, from "machinist" to "dietician." Nine of the ten lowest-paying jobs (e.g.: child-care worker, library assistant) were disproportionately female. Nine of the ten highest-paying jobs (e.g.: software architect, psychiatrist) were majority male.

Women would get paid more, for example, if there were more women pipefitters, maintenance workers, firefighters, steelworkers, joiners, carpenters, construction workers, garbage collectors, truck drivers, warehouse workers, utility workers and linemen (linespersons), electricians, heating and cooling workers, engineers, roofers, siders, bricklayers, masons, and the like.

Women don't take jobs that pay as much.

But how? Here’s one idea. Get women in university to switch their majors. Instead of sociology, they should take petroleum engineering, which pays three or four times as much. That would close the gap in no time.

Here’s one woman, recounting her firm’s recent management retreat: “Watching middle-aged white male after middle-age white male tell their war stories of sacrificing everything to close the sale was demoralizing, I just kept sinking lower in my chair and thinking that I would never be able to make it to the senior ranks if this was what it took.”

And another: “Top-level execs are ‘on’ 24/7 and that is not appealing at all.”

In other words, the world is still run by people – mostly men – who are married to their jobs. People who get to the top, as the Bain report points out, are those who maintain a high profile in the organization “and an unwavering commitment to long hours and constant work.” They start early, leave late and check their cellphones twice a nanosecond. The authors argue that these are false measures of success, and that there are better ones, and no doubt they have a point.

Here’s the problem. Plenty of men actually enjoy working this hard. I suspect they aren’t about to stop it just because it’s unfair to women.

So if we really want to close the pay gap, we’ll have to control the behaviour of men. Maybe there ought to be a law. Maybe it should be illegal to work 24/7 and sacrifice everything to close the sale. Imagine, if women ran the world, how much more civilized life would be.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-de ... e24698285/

[Forty Two]

Rarely? That government commission I linked to estimates that the wage gap is not only 74 cents on the dollar they estimate that pure sexual discrimination accounts for 15% of it. That's not 'rarely' that's as common as sales tax.

That's 26 cents on the dollar, and the "gap" they attribute to discrimination is 15% of that 26 cents. That's 3.9 cents worth of discrimination per dollar. That's their best estimate. LOL.

[Jason]

.. I knew you'd say that. Jeebus. No they estimate that 15% of the female workforce that receives 74 cents on the dollar is down to pure discrimination.

[Jason]

I'd like to know what your issue is with many feminists being anti-capitalist.. or "Marxist".

[Forty Two]

.. I knew you'd say that. Jeebus. No they estimate that 15% of the female workforce that receives 74 cents on the dollar is down to pure discrimination.

"Statisticians estimate that as much as 10 to 15 % of the gender wage gap is due to discrimination." Note, you said "15% -- when the link you posted said "statisticians" ESTIMATE 10 to 15%. So, maybe it's only 10%. And, "statisticians" have no fucking idea whether a job is being paid in a discriminatory fashion. How in the world is a "statistician" estimating that at all? All he or she can do is look at the numbers and see what amount of a pay gap is not explainable by the numbers he has, and he can call that possible discrimination. It doesn't mean any of it actually is discrimination at all.

The gap claimed is 26 cents. 15% of that gap is 0.15 x 26 cents, or 3.9 cents. 10% is 2.6 cents. It says nothing that 10-15% of women are being discriminated against, or that 10-15% of women who are paid less are being discriminated against.

Here's what your link says is to be done about it -- "The Act puts the onus on employers to establish and maintain compensation practices that that provide for pay equity by comparing female job classes and male job classes and adjusting the job rates of female job classes so that they are at least equal to the job rates of comparable male job classes based on skill, effort, responsibility and working conditions." So.... if women take jobs that pay less, the answer is to force employers to take the lower paying jobs that women take more. LOL.

So, if men dominate the pipefitters and journeyman carpenters making $25 per hour, and women in the same company dominate the data entry clerk and admin assistant positions in the office making $10 per hour, then the company needs to raise the pay of the data entry clerks to compensate. That's fair. LOL. And, clearly, that solution recognizes that the discrimination is not that women pipefitters are paid less than male pipefitters. It's that women aren't becoming pipefitters.

[Jason]

Cool story bro. But what's your beef with feminists having political agendas outside feminism - aka "Marxism"

[JimC]

The wage gap is not debunked. It is real. At least here in Canada.

It is also possible to measure the gender wage gap on the basis of hourly wages. The most recent Statistics Canada data (2011) shows that the gender wage gap in Ontario is 26% for full–time, full–year workers. This means that for every $1.00 earned by a male worker, a female worker earns 74 cents.

However, this would be for a variety of reasons, mainly to do with what sort of jobs are on average done by either sex. In regulated industries with industrial awards, I'm sure you would see the same as in Oz, in that people doing the same work (e.g. teaching) get precisely the same wage.