Why creationists can laugh at atheist feminists?

[DaveDodo007]

Oh.. and how do you feel about homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgenders - particularly our political agendas of equality.

So I'm a right winger so clearly I must hate the other and be a puritan, well trust me I'm anything but that. I don't give a shit what you do in your bedroom and whom you do it with as long as it is consensual.

So.. you feel all sexuality ought to be kept in the private domain, or is it just homosexuals, bisexuals, and trans that need to keep it in the bedroom? Do you support equality under the law for same-sex and transgender couples?

I support equality for everyone and always have and always will. Though if you really claim to be pro transgender then feminism isn't for you as they are mostly TERFS.

[Jason]

I think you've been running with a bad crowd. In any case your background is very interesting to me as you claim to be from an Islamic culture you certainly must have a unique and valuable perspective on gender issues coming from that kind of society and I just think discussing that perspective, objectively if you like, would help me understand your position on these issues much better - especially if we're going to move beyond your opinion of feminism in western culture and into the political and social ramifications of feminism in Islam today and in the future. It would help me understand your point of view to know where you're coming from - I'm not trying to set you up for an elaborate ad hominem.

If it doesn't interest you, cool. Tell me about your issues with feminism in western society and we can move from there. Something short and punchy to get us started.

[Jason]

TERFS are a radical minority of a radical subgroup of feminism. You can't call feminists TERFS because a tiny portion of them are actually ugly bigots. That's like calling all white people Nazis and it's known as the fallacy of composition - I'm sure you've been told this hundreds of times.

Regardless, if you'd give me your full description of feminism we can get the ball rolling.

[Jason]

Oh.. and how do you feel about homosexuals, bisexuals, and transgenders - particularly our political agendas of equality.

So I'm a right winger so clearly I must hate the other and be a puritan, well trust me I'm anything but that. I don't give a shit what you do in your bedroom and whom you do it with as long as it is consensual.

So.. you feel all sexuality ought to be kept in the private domain, or is it just homosexuals, bisexuals, and trans that need to keep it in the bedroom? Do you support equality under the law for same-sex and transgender couples?

I support equality for everyone and always have and always will.

You evaded my question though, at least the main part of it. Do you think sexuality ought to be kept in the bedroom or is it acceptable in the public domain? Since you are pro-equality I'll assume your answer applies as much to heteros kissing and groping on a park bench as homos.

[JimC]

Yes, there are some on the politically correct version of the modern left that can be pains in the butt in the way you describe, just as there are academic feminists with absurd and extreme views on gender.

Neither of those smallish groups are the defining feature of the left in general, or feminism in general. They need robust criticism, but not silly over-generalisation...

[DaveDodo007]

I think you've been running with a bad crowd. In any case your background is very interesting to me as you claim to be from an Islamic culture you certainly must have a unique and valuable perspective on gender issues coming from that kind of society and I just think discussing that perspective, objectively if you like, would help me understand your position on these issues much better - especially if we're going to move beyond your opinion of feminism in western culture and into the political and social ramifications of feminism in Islam today and in the future. It would help me understand your point of view to know where you're coming from - I'm not trying to set you up for an elaborate ad hominem.

If it doesn't interest you, cool. Tell me about your issues with feminism in western society and we can move from there. Something short and punchy to get us started.

I'm half Turkish/British, though I like to call myself English because they are so fucking cool. though that makes a difference to my opinion for some fucking reason.

[Jason]

I think you've been running with a bad crowd. In any case your background is very interesting to me as you claim to be from an Islamic culture you certainly must have a unique and valuable perspective on gender issues coming from that kind of society and I just think discussing that perspective, objectively if you like, would help me understand your position on these issues much better - especially if we're going to move beyond your opinion of feminism in western culture and into the political and social ramifications of feminism in Islam today and in the future. It would help me understand your point of view to know where you're coming from - I'm not trying to set you up for an elaborate ad hominem.

If it doesn't interest you, cool. Tell me about your issues with feminism in western society and we can move from there. Something short and punchy to get us started.

I'm half Turkish/British, though I like to call myself English because they are so fucking cool. though that makes a difference to my opinion for some fucking reason.

Cool.

Though I was hoping you'd share your observations on the state of gender politics in the Islamic culture, of Turkey I take it. How do they view feminism there?

[DaveDodo007]

TERFS are a radical minority of a radical subgroup of feminism. You can't call feminists TERFS because a tiny portion of them are actually ugly bigots. That's like calling all white people Nazis and it's known as the fallacy of composition - I'm sure you've been told this hundreds of times.

Regardless, if you'd give me your full description of feminism we can get the ball rolling.

and yet I see no disapproval from the mainstream feminists just like I see no criticism of the man hating feminists. I call that tacit support for their toxic view.

[Jason]

TERFS are a radical minority of a radical subgroup of feminism. You can't call feminists TERFS because a tiny portion of them are actually ugly bigots. That's like calling all white people Nazis and it's known as the fallacy of composition - I'm sure you've been told this hundreds of times.

Regardless, if you'd give me your full description of feminism we can get the ball rolling.

and yet I see no disapproval from the mainstream feminists just like I see no criticism of the man hating feminists. I call that tacit support for their toxic view.

I see. Don't you think TERFS are in such a minority as to be effectively impotent in the feminist movement? I'm of the opinion that once they've self-identified they're effectively self-marginalized. They have the right to be ugly bigots - that's the price we pay to live in a free society - and often ignoring such persons is the best way to see that they stay marginalized. Giving them space in the public conversation only gives a voice to their bigotry. I don't see that failure to constantly voice disapproval of their nonsense is condemnatory or indicative of bigotry in feminism as a whole. I think it's a healthy way to deal with the problem.

[DaveDodo007]

Yes, there are some on the politically correct version of the modern left that can be pains in the butt in the way you describe, just as there are academic feminists with absurd and extreme views on gender.

Neither of those smallish groups are the defining feature of the left in general, or feminism in general. They need robust criticism, but not silly over-generalisation...

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you comfortable what with having to listen and believe so your unevidence ideology it true, lol. Seriously JimC would you tolerate the same arguments from the religious as you seen to be willing to give feminism a free pass? Either facts, reality, evidence and science mean something or they don't. Choose and choose wisely.

[DaveDodo007]

TERFS are a radical minority of a radical subgroup of feminism. You can't call feminists TERFS because a tiny portion of them are actually ugly bigots. That's like calling all white people Nazis and it's known as the fallacy of composition - I'm sure you've been told this hundreds of times.

Regardless, if you'd give me your full description of feminism we can get the ball rolling.

and yet I see no disapproval from the mainstream feminists just like I see no criticism of the man hating feminists. I call that tacit support for their toxic view.

I see. Don't you think TERFS are in such a minority as to be effectively impotent in the feminist movement? I'm of the opinion that once they've self-identified they're effectively self-marginalized. They have the right to be ugly bigots - that's the price we pay to live in a free society - and often ignoring such persons is the best way to see that they stay marginalized. Giving them space in the public conversation only gives a voice to their bigotry. I don't see that failure to constantly voice disapproval of their nonsense is condemnatory or indicative of bigotry in feminism as a whole. I think it's a healthy way to deal with the problem.

Name me a mainstream feminists who isn't a TERF as they seem to have no problem expressing their views, Jesus fucking Christ just check out the Guardian or the BBC for fucks sake.

[Jason]

TERFS are a radical minority of a radical subgroup of feminism. You can't call feminists TERFS because a tiny portion of them are actually ugly bigots. That's like calling all white people Nazis and it's known as the fallacy of composition - I'm sure you've been told this hundreds of times.

Regardless, if you'd give me your full description of feminism we can get the ball rolling.

and yet I see no disapproval from the mainstream feminists just like I see no criticism of the man hating feminists. I call that tacit support for their toxic view.

I see. Don't you think TERFS are in such a minority as to be effectively impotent in the feminist movement? I'm of the opinion that once they've self-identified they're effectively self-marginalized. They have the right to be ugly bigots - that's the price we pay to live in a free society - and often ignoring such persons is the best way to see that they stay marginalized. Giving them space in the public conversation only gives a voice to their bigotry. I don't see that failure to constantly voice disapproval of their nonsense is condemnatory or indicative of bigotry in feminism as a whole. I think it's a healthy way to deal with the problem.

Name me a mainstream feminists who isn't a TERF as they seem to have no problem expressing their views, Jesus fucking Christ just check out the Guardian or the BBC for fucks sake.

I don't follow.. can you give me an example of a few mainstream feminists who are TERFs? If they're consistently getting their transphobic shite into the Guardian or on the BBC I could see why you'd be upset if no one was calling them on their bullshit.

[JimC]

Yes, there are some on the politically correct version of the modern left that can be pains in the butt in the way you describe, just as there are academic feminists with absurd and extreme views on gender.

Neither of those smallish groups are the defining feature of the left in general, or feminism in general. They need robust criticism, but not silly over-generalisation...

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you comfortable what with having to listen and believe so your unevidence ideology it true, lol. Seriously JimC would you tolerate the same arguments from the religious as you seen to be willing to give feminism a free pass? Either facts, reality, evidence and science mean something or they don't. Choose and choose wisely.

I can live with tolerant adherents of mainstream religions, just as I can live with mainstream leftists or feminists, whether I agree with all their ideas or not. You really know fuck-all about any ideology I may have (I tend to be centrist in many areas of politics...). My contribution to this thread has not been advocating any form of ideology, but cautioning you that your rants typically overgeneralise from a handful of cherry-picked examples of inflexible feminist or leftist ideologues.

[DaveDodo007]

TERFS are a radical minority of a radical subgroup of feminism. You can't call feminists TERFS because a tiny portion of them are actually ugly bigots. That's like calling all white people Nazis and it's known as the fallacy of composition - I'm sure you've been told this hundreds of times.

Regardless, if you'd give me your full description of feminism we can get the ball rolling.

and yet I see no disapproval from the mainstream feminists just like I see no criticism of the man hating feminists. I call that tacit support for their toxic view.

I see. Don't you think TERFS are in such a minority as to be effectively impotent in the feminist movement? I'm of the opinion that once they've self-identified they're effectively self-marginalized. They have the right to be ugly bigots - that's the price we pay to live in a free society - and often ignoring such persons is the best way to see that they stay marginalized. Giving them space in the public conversation only gives a voice to their bigotry. I don't see that failure to constantly voice disapproval of their nonsense is condemnatory or indicative of bigotry in feminism as a whole. I think it's a healthy way to deal with the problem.

Name me a mainstream feminists who isn't a TERF as they seem to have no problem expressing their views, Jesus fucking Christ just check out the Guardian or the BBC for fucks sake.

I don't follow.. can you give me an example of a few mainstream feminists who are TERFs? If they're consistently getting their transphobic shite into the Guardian or on the BBC I could see why you'd be upset if no one was calling them on their bullshit.

Julie Burchill, Suzanne Moore, Laurie Penny and Roseanne Barr transphobes one and all. I could go on but why should I as feminism can't do no wrong in your eyes as it is a godless religion to you. Anything a feminists does that is bad then they are not a true feminists (Scotsman.) It is truly pathetic and just goes to show that atheists are just a bunch of gullible morons as any religious person.

[Jason]

OK.. for the sake of argument I'm going to agree they're transphobes (and only for the sake of argument because it isn't that important), but I don't see them not getting called out on what other people call their bullshit - which was your objection if you recall. I'm really not following you. Who's saying they're not feminists? If they are TERFs we already covered they're a radical subgroup, but still feminists. My policy is to ignore them if possible, but call them on their shit if it's unavoidable. Occassionaly I might feel generous to a phobe and try to help them work out their shit. Atheists are just people and can surely be as ignorant, gullible, and moronic as any theist. We agree on that much.