Dawkins sues Josh Timonen

[charlou]

The age difference has sfa to do with anything. I think she is right to object to the lawyer making an issue of it. Really, WTF?

maybe the suit aims to prove that the guy has no self control or emotional maturity, and is such a danger to society that he should be declared insane and sent to the loony bin?

I think the reference to being significantly older is only used as a lead up to the statement that she has young adult children, who are later named as having been allegedly paid proceeds from the online shop. One son is alleged to have been paid $29,000.

ahkay .. I think I shall read the document ...



Experienced pussy, lacklack? Damn.

[laklak]

Experienced pussy, lacklack? Damn.

I can testify, got caught by some of that back in the day, when I was 21 or so. I'd have mugged little old ladies for it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Experienced pussy, lacklack? Damn.

I can testify, got caught by some of that back in the day, when I was 21 or so.

Fourteen for me.

[Coito ergo sum]

I wonder why there isn't a criminal prosecution here...

At nearly $1,000,000, this might have garnered the attention of the FBI, not to mention California authorities....

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I wonder why there isn't a criminal prosecution here...

At nearly $1,000,000, this might have garnered the attention of the FBI, not to mention California authorities....

There's no indication that the authorities are not intending to file charges are there? To build a criminal case the DA will take is a bit more complicated than filing a suit. So, with any luck at all . . .

[laklak]

I just did a Google search for images of rat's rectums, look at the first image shown....



If you click on it it takes you to the original thread:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 9&start=25

[Svartalf]

I wonder why there isn't a criminal prosecution here...

At nearly $1,000,000, this might have garnered the attention of the FBI, not to mention California authorities....

nope... IIUC, the actual losses incurred are on the order of 375K, the nearly 1 000 000 amount is the damages demanded... still is grand theft, fraud, embezzlement or whatever, but not that big.

Iss it usual for the criminal arm to parse civil suits for criminal doings and crash the party even if not called on?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Iss it usual for the criminal arm to parse civil suits for criminal doings and crash the party even if not called on?

Depends on the circumstances of the case, who the victim(s) and suspect(s) are, etc.

[Feck]

Iz funny because it was touted that the foundation was risking it's charity status because of the foul language on the forum .

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Iz funny because it was touted that the foundation was risking it's charity status because of the foul language on the forum .

Just an excuse, nothing more.

[Coito ergo sum]

I wonder why there isn't a criminal prosecution here...

At nearly $1,000,000, this might have garnered the attention of the FBI, not to mention California authorities....

There's no indication that the authorities are not intending to file charges are there? To build a criminal case the DA will take is a bit more complicated than filing a suit. So, with any luck at all . . .

The civil suit is a big tip-off. If he was embezzling, they could get the FBI or the local police to take on the case and set him up. In these kinds of cases, the criminal prosecution usually results in a plea bargain or a conviction involving restitution of amounts stolen.

My gut tells me that they went to the authorities, who looked at it and deemed it a business dispute over trademarks and copyrights, or not clear enough for a criminal prosecution as to who owed what.

Timonen's defense is probably going to involve a claim that he owned the website and was entitled to everything he took. We see that already anticipated in Dawkins' complaint, claiming that everything Timonen did was a "work for hire." Whether that is the case is going to depend on Timonen's contract with Dawkins.....

The end result of this will likely be that the parties will settle the matter on undisclosed terms subject to a confidentiality agreement.

[charlou]

I just did a Google search for images of rat's rectums, look at the first image shown....



If you click on it it takes you to the original thread:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 9&start=25

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The civil suit is a big tip-off. If he was embezzling, they could get the FBI or the local police to take on the case and set him up. In these kinds of cases, the criminal prosecution usually results in a plea bargain or a conviction involving restitution of amounts stolen.

You know very well that both types of cases are filed routinely.

[Coito ergo sum]

I wonder why there isn't a criminal prosecution here...

At nearly $1,000,000, this might have garnered the attention of the FBI, not to mention California authorities....

nope... IIUC, the actual losses incurred are on the order of 375K, the nearly 1 000 000 amount is the damages demanded... still is grand theft, fraud, embezzlement or whatever, but not that big.

Iss it usual for the criminal arm to parse civil suits for criminal doings and crash the party even if not called on?

They wouldn't know about it if they weren't called. The embezzled party makes a report to the FBI. The FBI won't go after it unless the loss meets a minimum threshold. I don't remember what that is. However, local authorities don't have a threshold, officially, and certainly would go after $375,000 embezzlements. That's pretty big.

In the US the civil and criminal systems are completely separate. The police can prosecute criminally whether or not anyone brings a civil suit, and vice versa.

[maiforpeace]

PZ made a point of posting at RS that the document was the work of the the attorney and not RD's words. I think that's interesting - perhaps RD may have expressed some misgivings about what's going on with his case to PZ? Like LP, I don't think RD would have done this unless he absolutely had to. If it had just been him who JT had embezzled funds from he would have let it go I think. He's doing it because he too has a fiduciary duty to the foundation. Once you go to an attorney, especially those sharky types that handle this sort of case, it's kind of out of your hands. RD doesn't have the option of looking over the document, objecting to some of the wording and adding his edits. Either you go along with what the attorney tells you to do, or you fire him and get a new one which costs even more money. RD has already sunk a little fortune into the guy he has now.

As for the content of the document goes an attorney (note the absence of the word good here ) will write practically anything to make their case - so that would include painting RD to be perfect (thus the wording you so object to MH), and JT and Maureen to be the worst kind of criminal ever. I've seen it done, having been a plaintiff in a case to get a dishonest trustee who was hiding trust funds thrown off as the manager of a trust. They want to scare the shit out of the defendants.

My guess is when all is said and done that they will probably come to some kind of settlement. If the embezzlement was grossly obvious, the district attorney would have taken up the case. As it is, they haven't, so it will probably go through a lot of legal wrangling before a decision is reached. The winners? The attorneys.

RD may win his case, but he will still lose. This type of lawsuit will take a real toll on his emotional health, especially since he did have a personal relationship with Josh. I feel badly for him having to deal with this, especially at his age - he's no spring chicken.