Poll about the impact of the purge

[Shaker]

I simply don't have enough information on RD's level of personal involvement in what happened. My opinion will remain unchanged until I get more info.

This How much do we currently know about how much he knows? I'm not going to go one way or the other until it's clarified. Will it change my opinion of him if it turns out that this has been at his behest, or done with his knowledge? Sure it will - very much for the worse. (Not that it'll matter a jot to him, of course). But it's equally possible that this has all been a few select individuals over-reaching themelves authority-wise and that this started out without RD's knowledge/permission, and until I find out which one of those options is the correct one I'm not going to fall off the fence one side or 'tother.

There: Shaker has spoken

[Arse]

I simply don't have enough information on RD's level of personal involvement in what happened. My opinion will remain unchanged until I get more info.

This. How much do we currently know about how much he knows?

Come off it guys, stop trying to give RD a benefit of the doubt that he doesn't deserve. He either knew about it, (which makes him a cunt), or he didn't know about it, which would make him negligent to the point of senility. Either way, he's lost my respect.

[klr]

I simply don't have enough information on RD's level of personal involvement in what happened. My opinion will remain unchanged until I get more info.

This. How much do we currently know about how much he knows?

Come off it guys, stop trying to give RD a benefit of the doubt that he doesn't deserve. He either knew about it, (which makes him a cunt), or he didn't know about it, which would make him negligent to the point of senility. Either way, he's lost my respect.

I agree. He was blissfully unaware in Oct. '08 (him and Josh apparently), but there should be no excuse this time. As you say: Either he's sanctioned this directly, or he's allowed our two friends such operational freedom and lack of accountability that they feel they can get away with this.

Or somewhere between the two.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I simply don't have enough information on RD's level of personal involvement in what happened. My opinion will remain unchanged until I get more info.

This. How much do we currently know about how much he knows?

Come off it guys, stop trying to give RD a benefit of the doubt that he doesn't deserve. He either knew about it, (which makes him a cunt), or he didn't know about it, which would make him negligent to the point of senility. Either way, he's lost my respect.

Or he was beguiled and deluded by a conniving twat with his own agenda that constantly reassured him that everything was under control and there would only be a modicum of dissent.

I'm with Shaker. We don't know - it all happened less than 24 hours ago. Judgment deferred until RD makes a statement, or more facts become available.

[Shaker]

I simply don't have enough information on RD's level of personal involvement in what happened. My opinion will remain unchanged until I get more info.

This. How much do we currently know about how much he knows?

Come off it guys, stop trying to give RD a benefit of the doubt that he doesn't deserve. He either knew about it, (which makes him a cunt), or he didn't know about it, which would make him negligent to the point of senility. Either way, he's lost my respect.

I don't think that's fair. The first option - absolutely true, and I am, or rather would be, in full agreement with you. The second I don't go along with. RD put his name to the site and used to drop in to post now and again, but all of the technical day-to-day gubbins is left to other people to do, delegation the same as in any business. I'm sure we can all come up with plenty of examples of various nefarious shenanigans which have occurred when the minions have been getting above themselves without the knowledge or consent of the suits on the golf course. All I'm saying at the moment is that we don't know which is which, and it's unfairly jumping the gun to start slandering the man before we do know.

If it turns out that this was at his behest, then we can slander him

[Arse]

Or he was beguiled and deluded by a conniving twat with his own agenda that constantly reassured him that everything was under control and there would only be a modicum of dissent.

If he fell for that then he still doesn't deserve my respect, nor any of the rest of yours, because that would be a stupid thing to believe. There are times when the buck stops with the guy at the top - no excuses, whatever the ins and outs of who did what - and this is one of them.

[Shaker]

Either he's sanctioned this directly

In the words of our friend Arse: cunt.

or he's allowed our two friends such operational freedom and lack of accountability that they feel they can get away with this.

Busy-ness-cum-lack of judgment. Not a hanging matter, in my view.

[Heresiarch]

I'm with Shaker. We don't know - it all happened less than 24 hours ago. Judgment deferred until RD makes a statement, or more facts become available.

To be honest, I'm torn between sharing this sentiment and thinking that he should have had the balls to make the statement himself instead of hiding behind some code monkey.

[klr]

Or he was beguiled and deluded by a conniving twat with his own agenda that constantly reassured him that everything was under control and there would only be a modicum of dissent.

If he fell for that then he still doesn't deserve my respect, nor any of the rest of yours, because that would be a stupid thing to believe. There are times when the buck stops with the guy at the top - no excuses, whatever the ins and outs of who did what - and this is one of them.

Correct again, and he's already had a salient lesson from Oct. '08: Get people you can trust, and even then keep an eye on things yourself.

Either he's sanctioned this directly

In the words of our friend Arse: cunt.

or he's allowed our two friends such operational freedom and lack of accountability that they feel they can get away with this.

Busy-ness-cum-lack of judgment. Not a hanging matter, in my view.

Again I go back to The Great PurgeTM. He should know by now that it's not a good idea to let himself be led by the nose in this manner.

I'm with Shaker. We don't know - it all happened less than 24 hours ago. Judgment deferred until RD makes a statement, or more facts become available.

To be honest, I'm torn between sharing this sentiment and thinking that he should have had the balls to make the statement himself instead of hiding behind some code monkey.

And now that you say it, I agree.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Or he was beguiled and deluded by a conniving twat with his own agenda that constantly reassured him that everything was under control and there would only be a modicum of dissent.

If he fell for that then he still doesn't deserve my respect, nor any of the rest of yours, because that would be a stupid thing to believe. There are times when the buck stops with the guy at the top - no excuses, whatever the ins and outs of who did what - and this is one of them.

Nobody that is in charge of a large organisation knows everything that goes on. they delegate responsibility. Sometimes, they pick the wrong person to delegate to. This shit happens in every company, foundation and government. RD is not all-seeing and his interest in the forum has always been peripheral compared to his lectures, books and spreading the word about his vision of atheism. It is easy to blame the man at the top but far wiser IMO to take a step back and wait to see if they are deserving of that blame.

[Shaker]

Maybe Xamonas and I are coming across like this fella:

with a sort of why-can't-we-all-just-get-along-and-be-reasonable sort of way, but what XC just said is bang on the money. RD wouldn't be the first figure to have been left completely in the dark about what's been going on with his thing while he's away doing something else and he sure as shit won't be the last. Is that what happened? Fucked if I know. I just don't have a taste for sharpening the blade of Madame Guillotine until we found out more.

I'm too good for this world, me.

[klr]

Maybe Xamonas and I are coming across like this fella:

with a sort of why-can't-we-all-just-get-along-and-be-reasonable sort of way, but what XC just said is bang on the money. RD wouldn't be the first figure to have left completely in the dark about what's been going on with his thing while he's away doing something else and he sure as shit won't be the last. Is that what happened? Fucked if I know. I just don't have a taste for sharpening the blade of Madame Guillotine until we found out more.

I'm too good for this world, me.

Trust me, RD can be hard-nosed and unforgiving when he feels like it.

[laklak]

Nobody that is in charge of a large organisation knows everything that goes on. they delegate responsibility. Sometimes, they pick the wrong person to delegate to. This shit happens in every company, foundation and government. RD is not all-seeing and his interest in the forum has always been peripheral compared to his lectures, books and spreading the word about his vision of atheism. It is easy to blame the man at the top but far wiser IMO to take a step back and wait to see if they are deserving of that blame.

True. But this? It would be like the CEO of a corporation not realizing his underling was about to completely change the business model, start manufacturing cars instead of writing software, lay off a few tens of thousands of employees and burn the financial records.

I could see some sort of minor purge happening without his knowledge, but not something of this magnitude.

[Arse]

Or he was beguiled and deluded by a conniving twat with his own agenda that constantly reassured him that everything was under control and there would only be a modicum of dissent.

If he fell for that then he still doesn't deserve my respect, nor any of the rest of yours, because that would be a stupid thing to believe. There are times when the buck stops with the guy at the top - no excuses, whatever the ins and outs of who did what - and this is one of them.

Nobody that is in charge of a large organisation knows everything that goes on. they delegate responsibility. Sometimes, they pick the wrong person to delegate to. This shit happens in every company, foundation and government. RD is not all-seeing and his interest in the forum has always been peripheral compared to his lectures, books and spreading the word about his vision of atheism. It is easy to blame the man at the top but far wiser IMO to take a step back and wait to see if they are deserving of that blame.

XC - face facts. Nobody - and I do mean NOBODY - allows someone to close an internet forum which bears their name, and then start mass deleting accounts and posts in such an arbitrary manner, unless they are...

a) an arrogant cunt

or

b) a senile old fart who has lost the ability to control what is being done in their name

Remember we're not talking about a glitch the size of what happened in 08 here - the forum has been effectively closed down. Finito. If you think Dawkins can not know about this either you're engaging in wishful thinking or you're admitting that he's gone senile.

[Bella Fortuna]

Does that make Josh

?