Dawkins: At War With The Feminists?

[leo-rcc]

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011 ... e_unto.php

I agree with PZ on this one.

[Gallstones]

From what I can see, the man asked her back to his room for a coffee or a drink. She describes this behaviour as ["sexist and damaging".

What a fucking ridiculous woman. Dawkins is absolutely right to rip the piss out of her.

This is how I read comments like this--the part that isn't said but is implied--that when a man is interested in a woman he is entitled to her acquiescence. And if she does not submit she is frigid, a nut, a psycho bitch, deserving of verbal violence (would have been physical violence in the "old" days).

Another thing, comments like this only support her premise, don't you see?

And another thing--I wonder what elevator man was saying about her after this encounter and the rebuff? I bet it is interesting. Nothing sexist I'm sure--like she's a frigid nut.

[Geoff]

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011 ... e_unto.php

I agree with PZ on this one.

I don't. I'm with Ayaan & Anna on this one; she's overreacting to a completely trivial incident.

As Ayaan points out: "Most women I know would have gotten off the elevator, had a chuckle about how clueless some guys can be, and had a laugh about it later with their girlfriends."

[anna09]

It's not like I've never been in any uncomfortable situations before. . .
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... +a+stalker

This is how I read comments like this--the part that isn't said but is implied--that when a man is interested in a woman he is entitled to her acquiescence. And if she does not submit she is frigid, a nut, a psycho bitch, deserving of verbal violence (would have been physical violence in the "old" days).

You're still throwing every man into that category and it's wrong.

Some men are assholes and have really bad intentions, that does not mean ALL men are assholes with really bad intentions. Most men I've encountered that have alluded to a propostion were very polite and even apoligised when I declined.

[stripes4]

I agree with Gallstones

[Animavore]

From what I can see, the man asked her back to his room for a coffee or a drink. She describes this behaviour as ["sexist and damaging".

What a fucking ridiculous woman. Dawkins is absolutely right to rip the piss out of her.

This is how I read comments like this--the part that isn't said but is implied--that when a man is interested in a woman he is entitled to her acquiescence. And if she does not submit she is frigid, a nut, a psycho bitch, deserving of verbal violence (would have been physical violence in the "old" days).

Another thing, comments like this only support her premise, don't you see?

And another thing--I wonder what elevator man was saying about her after this encounter and the rebuff? I bet it is interesting. Nothing sexist I'm sure--like she's a frigid nut.

Maybe he didn't say anything. Maybe he walked off embarrassed kicking himself for his stupidity. It's what I would've done. Getting shot down is pretty humiliating. Especially if you fuck up the execution. You just want the ground to swallow you up.
Though I've never cornered a girl to ask her

I'm not sticking up for him. Just saying you shouldn't jump to the conclusion that he walked of angry at her. Some of us are more sensitive souls. And some of us get angry at ourselves.

[Gallstones]

Her blog response to Dawkins.
http://skepchick.org/2011/07/the-privilege-delusion/

Quite frankly comparing what she writes with what Dawkins wrote--Dawkins is the one who comes off as hysterical.

[Gallstones]

It's not like I've never been in any uncomfortable situations before. . .
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... +a+stalker

This is how I read comments like this--the part that isn't said but is implied--that when a man is interested in a woman he is entitled to her acquiescence. And if she does not submit she is frigid, a nut, a psycho bitch, deserving of verbal violence (would have been physical violence in the "old" days).

You're still throwing every man into that category and it's wrong.

Some men are assholes and have really bad intentions, that does not mean ALL men are assholes with really bad intentions. Most men I've encountered that have alluded to a propostion were very polite and even apoligised when I declined.

I'm not throwing all men into anything. You are the one throwing my comments into some vat of all.
I responded to specific comments made here by a known person. By no definition is that a generalization.

[Gallstones]

From what I can see, the man asked her back to his room for a coffee or a drink. She describes this behaviour as ["sexist and damaging".

What a fucking ridiculous woman. Dawkins is absolutely right to rip the piss out of her.

This is how I read comments like this--the part that isn't said but is implied--that when a man is interested in a woman he is entitled to her acquiescence. And if she does not submit she is frigid, a nut, a psycho bitch, deserving of verbal violence (would have been physical violence in the "old" days).

Another thing, comments like this only support her premise, don't you see?

And another thing--I wonder what elevator man was saying about her after this encounter and the rebuff? I bet it is interesting. Nothing sexist I'm sure--like she's a frigid nut.

Maybe he didn't say anything. Maybe he walked off embarrassed kicking himself for his stupidity. It's what I would've done. Getting shot down is pretty humiliating. Especially if you fuck up the execution. You just want the ground to swallow you up.
Though I've never cornered a girl to ask her

I'm not sticking up for him. Just saying you shouldn't jump to the conclusion that he walked of angry at her. Some of us are more sensitive souls. And some of us get angry at ourselves.

Yes, of course.
I wasn't there. Dawkins wasn't there.

If this happened to me I'd have been flattered--although I am not obligated to be--but I would have declined. If that was the end of it then that would be the end of it. What happened is that Rebecca talked about it afterward and was excoriated for it. Why is she deserving of public ridicule by a celebrity who has the ear of the atheist and theist world for talking about an experience and how it made her feel?

She didn't file a police report or create a scene or even describe the guy so to embarrass him. She talked about something that happened to her in her own venue--her blog and her YouTube channel.

[klr]

From what I can see, the man asked her back to his room for a coffee or a drink. She describes this behaviour as ["sexist and damaging".

What a fucking ridiculous woman. Dawkins is absolutely right to rip the piss out of her.

Maybe it was Dominque Strauss-Kahn.

I think this is another case of Dawkins opening his mouth before he knows all the facts. There may also be a touch of 'Ivory Tower Syndrome' too.

Agreed on both counts. You'd have thought after the experiences of the last few years that he'd be a bit more circumspect and worldly-wise about what he says in public. There's nothing essentially wrong with what he said, putting the incident in a wider context. But still: Saying something like this is all good and well in private conversation, but say it in public and you could be crawling out on a very shaky limb.

[Animavore]

If this happened to me I'd have been flattered--although I am not obligated to be--but I would have declined. If that was the end of it then that would be the end of it. What happened is that Rebecca talked about it afterward and was excoriated for it. Why is she deserving of public ridicule by a celebrity who has the ear of the atheist and theist world for talking about an experience and how it made her feel?She didn't file a police report or create a scene or even describe the guy so to embarrass him. She talked about something that happened to her in her own venue--her blog and her YouTube channel.

Hey I'm on her side and have already went through this yesterday on RatSkep. I'm already in the dust has settled period and am taking more of a backseat position today

[Xamonas Chegwé]

As a woman, I can say that I would have been pretty uncomfortable in that situation. The guy had very bad timing. However, when she turned him down, he backed off. Most women I know would have gotten off the elevator, had a chuckle about how clueless some guys can be, and had a laugh about it later with their girlfriends.

Actually, if you watch the video, that's pretty much what she did - except, in this case, her "girlfriends" were the subscribers to her Youtube channel. She really is NOT angry or unreasonable in that video. She simply points out that men can be insensitive to women's feelings of insecurity and even fear sometimes when it comes to making sexual advances.

I've met her and she is NOT a raving man-hating loony feminist at all. She is a feminist, certainly, but none of the rest of it.

Dawkins was wrong to belittle her experience - yes, of course women in muslim countries have it worse but that is simply a "Your shit stinks worse than mine so mine doesn't stink at all" argument. Rebecca made a perfectly good point and he responded with unnecessary sarcasm.

[Warren Dew]

As a woman, I can say that I would have been pretty uncomfortable in that situation. The guy had very bad timing. However, when she turned him down, he backed off. Most women I know would have gotten off the elevator, had a chuckle about how clueless some guys can be, and had a laugh about it later with their girlfriends.

Actually, if you watch the video, that's pretty much what she did - except, in this case, her "girlfriends" were the subscribers to her Youtube channel.

That might be accurate if the video had a private distribution. It was public, though, thus inviting the loony celebrity response.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

As a woman, I can say that I would have been pretty uncomfortable in that situation. The guy had very bad timing. However, when she turned him down, he backed off. Most women I know would have gotten off the elevator, had a chuckle about how clueless some guys can be, and had a laugh about it later with their girlfriends.

Actually, if you watch the video, that's pretty much what she did - except, in this case, her "girlfriends" were the subscribers to her Youtube channel.

That might be accurate if the video had a private distribution. It was public, though, thus inviting the loony celebrity response.

You can't hold the girl responsible for the responses of others. She was hardly provocative. It was one small anecdote in a larger piece and Dawkins jumped on it and bludgeoned it like she'd just claimed to have been raped by a man talking to her - the fault lies with him.

[Tero]

Dawkins is a horny old man dreaming of nubile imaginary females
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/punct ... larbiology