Rationalskepticism,lol part III.

[pErvinalia]

I don't even know how to respond to that. You don't address anything anyone says, and just reply with a never-ending series of ridiculous platitudes. You clearly have no idea of the concept of elitism, human psychology, and system dynamics. Can't wait for your next post of randomly assembled platitudes.

[Svartalf]

I don't even know how to respond to that. You don't address anything anyone says, and just reply with a never-ending series of ridiculous platitudes. You clearly have no idea of the concept of elitism, human psychology, and system dynamics. Can't wait for your next post of randomly assembled platitudes.

For that matter, I have no idea of how to explain those concepts either, much less the full extent of what they cover.

[pErvinalia]

Well at least you are aware of what you might not grasp properly. Jonno is impervious to evidence and argumentation. He's been doing this for years. He continually replies with random non-sequiturs. He has a view of how the world works, and nothing is going to change that.

[pErvinalia]

But you are well aware of the concept of "the 1%", so you understand elitism well.

[pErvinalia]

I doubt anyone on this site other than Jonno would suggest that joining a political party or having a mortgage makes you elite. That just shows no understanding of power and the effect it has on our "democracies".

[Svartalf]

But you are well aware of the concept of "the 1%", so you understand elitism well.

I just wish to be one of the 1% and I'm tired of voting for members of the elite, or for making fellow proletarians elite members because of possible political importance...

[Svartalf]

I doubt anyone on this site other than Jonno would suggest that joining a political party or having a mortgage makes you elite. That just shows no understanding of power and the effect it has on our "democracies".

Having a mortgage means you're rich by African standard, since it means you're on your way to owning a B&M house (or part of a building if it's a condo)

As for joining a political party, it makes you an acknowledged tool of the elite, with options to being coopted if you serve and play your cards well.

[MrJonno]

Top 1% of the world, income over $32,400 ~ £21k

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pe ... -world.asp

I don't for one minute think that luck doesn't play a large part in me being part of that 1% but I sure intend to do everything to stay that way.

It's great living in a 1st world capitalist country and I do feel sorry for people who don't but not sorry enough to compromise my elite status, because that would be stupid

[pErvinalia]

I doubt anyone on this site other than Jonno would suggest that joining a political party or having a mortgage makes you elite. That just shows no understanding of power and the effect it has on our "democracies".

Having a mortgage means you're rich by African standard,

But that's irrelevant to your own position in your own society. If you have no power in your own "democracy", then you aren't part of the elite.

As for joining a political party, it makes you an acknowledged tool of the elite,

That's a view that I'm not unsympathetic to. And it is at least able to be reasonably defended. But in the case of Corbyn, Sanders et al, these people are overtly anti-elite. So supporters of them can hardly be elite, let alone a tool of the elite. The reasonable question is: does the political system we have inevitably lead to corruption and elitism? I kind of suspect that it does, and the events in Greece and Syriza selling out bear truth to that.

[pErvinalia]

Top 1% of the world, income over $32,400 ~ £21k

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/pe ... -world.asp

I don't for one minute think that luck doesn't play a large part in me being part of that 1% but I sure intend to do everything to stay that way.

It's great living in a 1st world capitalist country and I do feel sorry for people who don't but not sorry enough to compromise my elite status, because that would be stupid

As I said to Svarty, it's fairly irrelevant what your position is in relation to other societies. It your position within your own socio-political system. You simply are not an elite, Jonno. You wield almost no political power. Strange that you are so desperate to call yourself an elite now, given how derisive of them you were earlier. Well, it would be strange, if your arguments had any overall coherence to them.

[laklak]

But in the case of Corbyn, Sanders et al, these people are overtly anti-elite. So supporters of them can hardly be elite, let alone a tool of the elite. The reasonable question is: does the political system we have inevitably lead to corruption and elitism? I kind of suspect that it does, and the events in Greece and Syriza selling out bear truth to that.

I wouldn't call them anti-elitist, they just want to usurp the elite position. Commissars and apparatchiks, that's the ticket. All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. Such is the human condition. The biggest Bernie supporters I run into here are university students, and anyone who has ever been a university student knows full well they can't find their own ass with both hands and a GPS. Plus they're utterly doomed to failure. No society has ever been even remotely "fair", not on the playground nor in the hallowed Halls of Power. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. The trick is to figure out who the next boss is and position yourself as a little remora to their Great White, protected by their bulk and feeding off their scraps. Well, either that or go live on a trawler.

[Svartalf]

[quote="Svartalf]"As for joining a political party, it makes you an acknowledged tool of the elite,

That's a view that I'm not unsympathetic to. And it is at least able to be reasonably defended. But in the case of Corbyn, Sanders et al, these people are overtly anti-elite. So supporters of them can hardly be elite, let alone a tool of the elite. The reasonable question is: does the political system we have inevitably lead to corruption and elitism? I kind of suspect that it does, and the events in Greece and Syriza selling out bear truth to that.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
MMmh, AFAIK, whether they are pro or anti elite in words, they are elite in fact, and their followers intend to use that support as a springboard to improve their lot, i.e. become more elite than they currently are.

Unless I see corbyn et al do something serious to reduce inequalities, and in particular bring the current elites, starting with the political classes, down closer to the level of normal people, I'll regard any anti elite discourse as political lies, and their utterers as populares ready to bring Rome down crashing on its inhabitants' heads to fulfill their ambitions.

[pErvinalia]

@Lak... But this view of humans as inherently selfish and destructive goes against the tenants of Liberalism which you are supposed to espouse as a libbo, I would have thought.

[Svartalf]

What kinda libbo are you calling him? a reagan lover?

[pErvinalia]

[quote="Svartalf]"As for joining a political party, it makes you an acknowledged tool of the elite,

That's a view that I'm not unsympathetic to. And it is at least able to be reasonably defended. But in the case of Corbyn, Sanders et al, these people are overtly anti-elite. So supporters of them can hardly be elite, let alone a tool of the elite. The reasonable question is: does the political system we have inevitably lead to corruption and elitism? I kind of suspect that it does, and the events in Greece and Syriza selling out bear truth to that.

MMmh, AFAIK, whether they are pro or anti elite in words, they are elite in fact, and their followers intend to use that support as a springboard to improve their lot, i.e. become more elite than they currently are.[/quote]

I don't buy this. If you or I decided to run for politics for altruistic reasons, would that make us automatically elitist? Of course not. The question is, as I said: would we wind up as elites eventually. If we stuck around, we'd have to if we wanted to get to any position of authority, I suspect.

Unless I see corbyn et al do something serious to reduce inequalities, and in particular bring the current elites, starting with the political classes, down closer to the level of normal people, I'll regard any anti elite discourse as political lies, and their utterers as populares ready to bring Rome down crashing on its inhabitants' heads to fulfill their ambitions.

[/quote][/quote]

Well he needs to be given a chance first. He can't do much from opposition.