Modern Art woo

[Rum]

Given our recent conversation about modern art and Amni's commitment to shooting Tracy Emmin..and a limited defence of modern art by myself, here's a thread for discussing modern art in its woo and not so woo states. Here's one I definitely think is woo (I am using 'woo' in its loosest sense - in this case we can translate it as 'bullshit' if you prefer!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8303001.stm

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Proposed: That most of "modern art" comes under the category of the emperor's new clothes.

[Drewish]

I recommend you check out this movie

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0912592/

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Given our recent conversation about modern art and Amni's commitment to shooting Tracy Emmin..and a limited defence of modern art by myself, here's a thread for discussing modern art in its woo and not so woo states. Here's one I definitely think is woo (I am using 'woo' in its loosest sense - in this case we can translate it as 'bullshit' if you prefer!)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8303001.stm

I'll probably go see that when I'm in London at the weekend. I'll take a torch!

[BlackBart]

Skill without creativity is craft.
Creativity without skill is modern art.

[Rum]

Skill without creativity is craft.
Creativity without skill is modern art.

An excellent 'definition'/comment. Is it original or have you quoted?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

WTF is modern art anyway? Just how modern does art have to be to make it modern art? The term includes artists creating works in numerous fields, styles, media, etc. It also includes artists working as early as the late 19th century.

When most people (disparagingly) refer to modern art, they are referring to headline-grabbing conceptual artworks such as Emin's bed and Hirst's cows - neither of which I am particularly impressed by - but look at the diverse works of people like Jeff Koons, Francis Bacon, Anish Kapoor, to name but a few and you will see that there is far more to art in the last 2 centuries than flim-flam - there is genuine talent too.

[BlackBart]

Skill without creativity is craft.
Creativity without skill is modern art.

An excellent 'definition'/comment. Is it original or have you quoted?

A quote I'm afraid! I can't remember the source.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Skill without creativity is craft.
Creativity without skill is modern art.

An excellent 'definition'/comment. Is it original or have you quoted?

A quote I'm afraid! I can't remember the source.

"Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets. Imagination without skill gives us modern art." -
-- Tom Stoppard

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Skill without creativity is craft.
Creativity without skill is modern art.

An excellent 'definition'/comment. Is it original or have you quoted?

A quote I'm afraid! I can't remember the source.

"Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets. Imagination without skill gives us modern art." -
-- Tom Stoppard

Google Chuck Close. he's a modern artists. Does portraits 20 ft high that are indistinguishable from photos until you get close. Tell me he has no skill.

It is easy to sneer. But all you are doing is generalising from a few extreme (and admittedly laughable) examples.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tell me he has no skill.

He has no skill. Happy now?

To me, Jackson Pollock is a joke. But I will take each piece on its own merits. This is garbage:

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Tell me he has no skill.

He has no skill. Happy now?

To me, Jackson Pollock is a joke. But I will take each piece on its own merits. This is garbage:

Jackson Pollock is not Chuck Close - the clue is in the fact that they have different names.







The images above are of paintings that are 15-20ft high. He currently paints with a brush strapped to his wrist after suffering an arterial blood-vessel collapse. The image of Clinton (and I am fairly sure, the self-portrait above it) was certainly painted this way.

He possesses all of the draughtsman skills of any old-master you care to name - he just chooses to express himself in a unique manner.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Garbage by any other name still smells. I'm not impressed with Mr. Close.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Garbage by any other name still smells. I'm not impressed with Mr. Close.

And subjective opinion by any other name is still subjective opinion. You don't like it - fine - but dismissing someone's life-work as garbage because it isn't your cup of tea is beneath you.

I think American football is dull but I respect the fact that others enjoy it. I personally think that a lot of modern art is rubbish - but I would hesitate to sneer at another's opinion of that art. I would challenge their opinion, certainly, but if they firmly held it, and could offer justification for that opinion, I would accept that that was their view and agree to differ. You come across as extremely dogmatic in your 'belief' that all modern art is rubbish and seem to have a dismissive attitude towards differing views - I think that is wrong of you.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And subjective opinion by any other name is still subjective opinion. You don't like it - fine - but dismissing someone's life-work as garbage because it isn't your cup of tea is beneath you. .

It's my honest opinion, and I'd tell him to his face that I think his work is garbage. If he had a problem with that then he'd have a problem.