Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

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Forty Two
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:12 pm

eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
rachelbean wrote:
eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote: Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
Well I would say amongst atheist lefties that it is definitely not commonly true, because they tend to be science oriented (of course, not all). However, there definitely is a large part of the left (at least a large part of my circles in the US) that is aggressively anti-GMO. It is one of my (and I'm sure many scientists) continual frustrations.


It's also important to be careful about our terms. Many atheists "lefties" aren't really "leftist" as much as they are liberal.


If they vote to the left of the political spectrum, then they are lefties.
Not necessarily. People vote for the candidates in the offing, and sometimes one candidate will be the best of the available options without actually having an agreeable platform. In my case, for example, I rarely have anyone to vote for. I just vote against whoever is the most objectionable, to me.

eRvin wrote:
Liberals tend to be open to discussion of ideas


As are most lefties. :roll:


To the extent that most righties are also open to the discusison of ideas, sure. But, there are significant elements of both sides that are not. Part of the word "liberal", however, connotes an openness to ideas and tolerance of the ideas of others. This is distinct from conservative, which connotes a resistance to new ideas, and also leftist which connotes an intolerance of ideas outside of that ideology. Like, for example, the leftist ideas in Marxism -- Marxism is not "liberal" or "open to the ideas of others" and Marxism is "leftist." One of the pillars of Marxism is the elimination of dissidents and dissenters, not an openness to ideas of others -- this pillar on the left creates a tendency of some leftists to be intolerant of other ideas, deemed inconsistent with their ideology. Such inconsistent ideas are branded and sought to be silenced -- look at many of the things some leftists do -- shut down other people's conferences, try to run speakers off college campuses, boycott politically incorrect comedians, file complaints against college professors for discussing unpleasant ideas, foster things like microaggression policies and champion the silencing of opposing views through overbroad claims of hate speech, and the like. The "left" can sometimes be very, very, very, illiberal in the sense of being intolerant and not open to the ideas of others.





eRvin wrote:
I'm happy to discuss global warming/climate change, moon landings, the shape of the Earth, whatever -- some "lefties" these days are going so far as to try to liken challenges to climate science to hate speech and there are efforts afoot to criminalize it.


Oh ffs you come out with some utter rubbish. You really need to get out into the real world.


It's not rubbish. Some lefties have done this. The United States Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, a solid lefty, has said that they have considered prosecuting climate change deniers. There were demands from leftist climate scientists made in writing to President Obama, asking him to use RICO to silence climate "deniers." There have been calls from the left to make climate change denial a crime against humanity.

If you're unaware of this, you're not paying attention.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:18 pm

eRvin wrote:
You have a track record
:coffeespray: Talk about track records....

Fuck the fuck off. I'm not getting drawn into your fuckwittery anymore. I'm happy to discuss the substance of topics with you, but I'm going to ignore any further reference to "track records," veiled or not so veiled suggestions of lying or lack of intelligence, your dopey comments about other people not being able to "comprehend" or such other idiotic crap that you like to use to pepper your posts.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:44 am

Are we to presume that not paying attention to data is a conservative virtue?
.

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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:42 am

Forty Two wrote:
eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
rachelbean wrote:
eRvin wrote:
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
Well I would say amongst atheist lefties that it is definitely not commonly true, because they tend to be science oriented (of course, not all). However, there definitely is a large part of the left (at least a large part of my circles in the US) that is aggressively anti-GMO. It is one of my (and I'm sure many scientists) continual frustrations.


It's also important to be careful about our terms. Many atheists "lefties" aren't really "leftist" as much as they are liberal.


If they vote to the left of the political spectrum, then they are lefties.
Not necessarily. People vote for the candidates in the offing, and sometimes one candidate will be the best of the available options without actually having an agreeable platform. In my case, for example, I rarely have anyone to vote for. I just vote against whoever is the most objectionable, to me.


Who cares about your voting method? You are trying to suggest that the vast majority of atheists aren't politically left. That's utterly ridiculous. The simple fact of the matter is that your generic "lefty" that you tarred as a rabid anti-gmo is barely evident on the major rationalist forums that are stacked with lefties. Of course, no one denies that people like that exist. It just your ridiculous broad generalisations that are so utterly blinkered and dumb.

eRvin wrote:
Liberals tend to be open to discussion of ideas


As are most lefties. :roll:


To the extent that most righties are also open to the discusison of ideas, sure. But, there are significant elements of both sides that are not. Part of the word "liberal", however, connotes an openness to ideas and tolerance of the ideas of others. This is distinct from conservative, which connotes a resistance to new ideas, and also leftist which connotes an intolerance of ideas outside of that ideology.


:roll: In your blinkered head it does. Meanwhile, back in the real world where 50% of the population votes left and don't match up to your ridiculous mis-characterisation.

Like, for example, the leftist ideas in Marxism -- Marxism is not "liberal" or "open to the ideas of others" and Marxism is "leftist." One of the pillars of Marxism is the elimination of dissidents and dissenters, not an openness to ideas of others -- this pillar on the left creates a tendency of some leftists to be intolerant of other ideas, deemed inconsistent with their ideology. Such inconsistent ideas are branded and sought to be silenced -- look at many of the things some leftists do -- shut down other people's conferences, try to run speakers off college campuses, boycott politically incorrect comedians, file complaints against college professors for discussing unpleasant ideas, foster things like microaggression policies and champion the silencing of opposing views through overbroad claims of hate speech, and the like. The "left" can sometimes be very, very, very, illiberal in the sense of being intolerant and not open to the ideas of others.


Of course they can. But how many Marxists do you imagine are out there, Seth? I can tell you, having dealt with them politically, that they are a tiny minority.

eRvin wrote:
I'm happy to discuss global warming/climate change, moon landings, the shape of the Earth, whatever -- some "lefties" these days are going so far as to try to liken challenges to climate science to hate speech and there are efforts afoot to criminalize it.


Oh ffs you come out with some utter rubbish. You really need to get out into the real world.


It's not rubbish. Some lefties have done this. The United States Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, a solid lefty, has said that they have considered prosecuting climate change deniers. There were demands from leftist climate scientists made in writing to President Obama, asking him to use RICO to silence climate "deniers." There have been calls from the left to make climate change denial a crime against humanity.


Let's see some evidence for these assertions please.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:47 am

Forty Two wrote:
eRvin wrote:
You have a track record
:coffeespray: Talk about track records....

Fuck the fuck off. I'm not getting drawn into your fuckwittery anymore. I'm happy to discuss the substance of topics with you, but I'm going to ignore any further reference to "track records," veiled or not so veiled suggestions of lying or lack of intelligence, your dopey comments about other people not being able to "comprehend" or such other idiotic crap that you like to use to pepper your posts.
Oh, so when you made ridiculous claims about feminism and then had them challenged by direct quotes from prominent feminists and then didn't respond to those.... or when you made ridiculous claims about progressivism and then had them challenged by definitions from actual progressives AND conservatives and then didn't respond to them... These aren't cases of you ignoring facts that are inconvenient to your blinkered world view?? :ask:
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:55 pm

What part of fuck off don't you understand?

Your "definition" (wikipedia post) was shit, and that was explained to you quite clearly. You're full of it, and I'm tired of listening to the same tired "AtheismPlus-esque" refrain from you, over and over again. And you did not refute anything with quotes. You post nonsense, and declare it to be evidence. You're full of shit.

Fuck Off.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Tyrannical » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:52 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:Are we to presume that not paying attention to data is a conservative virtue?
Muslims lol
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:23 am

Forty Two wrote:What part of fuck off don't you understand?
The part where you get to dictate when and what I post.
Your "definition" (wikipedia post) was shit, and that was explained to you quite clearly.
You didn't even provide an authoritative definition at all. And furthermore I provided two additional descriptions - one from a progressive site and one from a conservative site, BOTH of which reflected the wiki definition and looked ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE your blinkered description. And, as usual, you ignore posts that are inconvenient to the ridiculous world view that you keep trying to peddle.
You're full of it, and I'm tired of listening to the same tired "AtheismPlus-esque" refrain from you, over and over again. And you did not refute anything with quotes. You post nonsense, and declare it to be evidence. You're full of shit.
Your repeated tanties can't deflect from the fact that you have a twisted view of reality and are always running away from debates that show up how inaccurate your views are. You've done it with feminism, progressivism, and now this.
Fuck Off.
Nah, I think I'll hang around and keep pointing out how ridiculous your charactertures of the left are.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Seth » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:57 am

L'Emmerdeur wrote:Just not that interested. All that "science" stuff isn't very trustworthy anyway.

"UA Study Shows Stark Differences in How Conservatives, Liberals See Data"
Conservatives are less interested than liberals in viewing novel scientific data, according to a psychology researcher at The University of Alabama.

Dr. Alexa Tullett, assistant professor of psychology at UA, recently conducted the project, titled “Is ideology the enemy of inquiry? Examining the link between political orientation and lack of interest in novel data.” The article will be published in the Journal of Research and Personality in August.

In three separate studies, Tullett and colleagues offered participants in both the Deep South and West Coast a chance to view data on three topics: the justness of the world, the efficacy of social safety nets and the benefits of social media. Participants were given no advanced knowledge of what the data would tell them. Tullett found that conservatives were less interested in viewing empirical data than liberals in all three studies. Moreover, conservatives were more skeptical about the value of science compared with liberals. These differences suggest that conservatives and liberals may differ with respect to the kinds of information they find persuasive in the context of political debate, Tullett said.

“One reason for increases in political polarization may be that people aren’t always speaking the same language,” Tullett said. “There seem to be epistemological differences between liberals and conservatives. They disagree about the value of scientific evidence, and if you’re relying on different types of evidence, you’re less likely to come to an agreement."
Yes, the difference is that conservatives understand that the world isn't a fair place, that it never has been, that it never will be, and that there will ALWAYS be imbalances in social status, income and wealth and that this is not a problem, it's a natural fact of life that doesn't need the sorts of "solutions" that liberal academics present. The very questions presented, "justness of the world," "efficacy of social safety nets" and "benefits of social media" are all liberal/progressive tropes that have no "science" involved because all three are nothing more than individual opinions that the "researchers" are "push polling" towards their desired leftist/liberal viewpoint.

Rejecting "empirical data" that amounts to nothing more than liberal propaganda naturally holds no interest for conservatives because it's crap from the get-go.

It should be obvious to a child that liberals and conservatives "differ with respect to the kinds of information they find persuasive in the context of political debate" because it's perfectly obvious that conservatives roundly and correctly reject liberal bloviation and propaganda as being of no use whatsoever in solving any social problems at all, because liberal/progressives are simply mindless parroting idiots who spout slogans without the slightest understanding of the issues or the unintended consequences of, for example, instituting a $15/hr minimum wage. They're all "everybody deserves a living wage" but they fail to understand that when the government mandates that employers pay employees more than they are worth to the employer the employer simply fires low-skilled workers and either replaces them with more experienced, more skilled employees who are worth the new mandatory wage, or they off-load the work to other employees, or they automate and eliminate employees. No matter what the employer chooses to do, the predictable and universally-seen result of government-mandated wage over-payment is that people lose their jobs or can't get a job in the first place. This hurts the very people the fuckwit liberals are supposed to be helping: the low-skill entry-level workers, like black teenagers, who thanks to minimum wages already have an unemployment rate exceeding 40%, and they have zero chance of getting a beginner, entry-level minimum wage job in which they can build skills and a documented work history that will set them on the path to better pay and advancement because liberals have priced them out of the job market by failing to consider the law of unintended consequences.

Conservatives, on the other hand, actually understand economics and know that entry-level jobs are starting points not intended to be permanent or long-term employment, as demonstrated by the fact that only about five percent of workers stay in entry-level minimum wage jobs for more than a year, and the other 95 percent quickly advance out of minimum wage as their skills and work ethic improves. Conservatives understand that an "apprenticeship" is a process by which someone learns a trade by exchanging labor for instruction and knowledge, rather than paying some liberal academic institution a bunch of money and accruing a lifetime of debt for an "education" that fails utterly to provide the student with marketable skills. Conservatives believe in giving people a hand up, not a hand-out and they require of everyone what they require of themselves, which is to apply oneself to bettering one's economic and social condition and eschewing becoming a dependent-class leech on society who has no future, no self-respect, no job and no reason to live.

That's part of why conservatives tell liberal academics like this to go fuck themselves and their biased leftist "research."
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Seth » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:59 am

eRvin wrote:
rachelbean wrote:Darn those lefty questions : :lay:
I've got to admit, they did strike me as kind of lefty when I read them. Conservatives already don't give a shit about modern Marxist-socialist propaganda, so they are going to be less likely to want to read about them.
:fix:
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Seth » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:00 am

eRvin wrote:I didn't say they were a cross section of leftism. Try reading for comprehension for once. YOU said that "a lefty" will be effectively rabidly anti-gmo. YOU are impugning a position to a generic lefty that doesn't comport with reality. And what's this shit that there's necessarily a distinction between a lefty and "rationalists and free thinkers"?!? Don't you find it noteworthy from under your rock that the VAST majority of atheists on the internet support the left of the political spectrum? There's a few liberals like you, and then a small spattering of conservatives and religious trolls.
Fuck off.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Seth » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:01 am

eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
eRvin wrote:noise
Oh fuck off.

I'm tired of your bullshit.

I'd address anything worthwhile, if I didn't have to wade through your horseshit oblique and not-so-oblique insults. You seem incapable of having a discussion without making it about insults, snark and snot-nosed comments.

Fuck off with yo bad self.
Weak as piss. You have a track record of making outlandish claims and then slinking off to some other part of the internet and avoiding addressing rebuttals. You are failing, yet again, with your ridiculous broad-brush strokes tarring "the left" or "progressives" due to the actions of a noisy minority. Show some reasoning abilities in your posts and you might not get called on your bullshit so often.
Fuck off.
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"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Seth » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:02 am

Brian Peacock wrote:Are we to presume that not paying attention to data is a conservative virtue?
No, you're to presume that conservatives are too smart to be gulled into mindless credulity by fuckwitted leftist propaganda masquerading as "data."

The plural of propaganda is not "data."
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Seth » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:03 am

eRvin wrote: Let's see some evidence for these assertions please.
Fuck off.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Tyrannical » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:54 am

Liberals and data lol
This part of Tyrannical's post has been removed because it is racist hate speech
IQ tests? Who needs them
Statistics? Dey be rasist.
Science? Dat be rayis too!

This is a warning that a similar infraction in future will result in a lengthy suspension
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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