Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:56 am

eRvin wrote:
rachelbean wrote:Darn those lefty questions : :lay:
I've got to admit, they did strike me as kind of lefty when I read them. Conservatives already don't give a shit about modern social practices, so they are going to be less likely to want to read about them.
I haven't read the study, but are we saying that the researchers didn't ask a range of questions to elicit from, and compare the responses of, those with a variety of political perspectives - instead focusing only on highlighting the typical characteristics of conservative responses?
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Hermit » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:58 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:Here in this part of Europe conservatives are liberals. A matter of definition.
Earlier in history liberals were progressives. Revolutionary, even. They fought for liberty, as their name implied, and the conservatives were known as royalists, who tried to maintain the status quo - feudalism - the rule by divine right.

The boot is on the other foot now. Liberals represent the status quo now, and social democrats fight the capitalist oppressors. Matters became more complicated when revolutionary socialists arrived at the scene who regarded social democrats as no more than liberals in disguise.

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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:03 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Forty Two wrote:. . . "benefits of social media" and you don't think a self-identifying "conservative" is going to think they see where this is headed?
What political implications might a conservative be wary of in regard to the topic of the benefits of social media?
The issue is that conservatives will not expect there to be any reliable, objective data on "the benefits of social media" -- such as proving it beneficial or harmful one way or the other. Conservatives are also less likely to be adopters of new things, so a liberal will be more pro-newer-media, like social media, whereas a conservative would be more likely to start off with the presupposition that it isn't necessarily a good thing.

It's about presuppositions - liberals have their own, but this study seems to focus on the areas where conservatives have certain presuppositions. However, if you picked some other topics, where liberals or leftists have some presuppositions, they'll also be resistant to new data.

Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.

I'm not saying the lefties are worse, not by any means. They just have their own biases and resistances.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:06 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
eRvin wrote:
rachelbean wrote:Darn those lefty questions : :lay:
I've got to admit, they did strike me as kind of lefty when I read them. Conservatives already don't give a shit about modern social practices, so they are going to be less likely to want to read about them.
I haven't read the study, but are we saying that the researchers didn't ask a range of questions to elicit from, and compare the responses of, those with a variety of political perspectives - instead focusing only on highlighting the typical characteristics of conservative responses?
From the points described in the article linked, yes. I question the objectivity of the study. I'm not a conservative, either. I am liberal on almost all issues, in the small-l sense of the word.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:23 pm

Forty Two wrote: Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:35 pm

eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote: Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
Yes, many.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:39 pm

Why don't you run a poll here and at ratskep? Both these forums are predominantly full of lefties. I suspect you'll find that your blinkered view doesn't actually comport with reality. Like usual.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by rachelbean » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:12 pm

eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote: Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
Well I would say amongst atheist lefties that it is definitely not commonly true, because they tend to be science oriented (of course, not all). However, there definitely is a large part of the left (at least a large part of my circles in the US) that is aggressively anti-GMO. It is one of my (and I'm sure many scientists) continual frustrations.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:21 pm

Yep, that's my assessment too. Although, I wouldn't say "a large part of the left" fit Coito's characterisation. There's certainly a not insignificant portion, though.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:43 pm

eRvin wrote:Why don't you run a poll here and at ratskep? Both these forums are predominantly full of lefties. I suspect you'll find that your blinkered view doesn't actually comport with reality. Like usual.
You think Rationalia and Ratskep are full of lefties? I experienced some of that, but much of these sites are liberals, rationalists and freethinkers. There are, of course, some fuckwits who would be religiously anti-GMO and such, but in my experience Ratz folks would not be of the lefty sort that deny evidence.

If you're suggesting that Ratskep and Ratz are representative cross sections of leftism, then the blinkered one is you.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:47 pm

I didn't say they were a cross section of leftism. Try reading for comprehension for once. YOU said that "a lefty" will be effectively rabidly anti-gmo. YOU are impugning a position to a generic lefty that doesn't comport with reality. And what's this shit that there's necessarily a distinction between a lefty and "rationalists and free thinkers"?!? Don't you find it noteworthy from under your rock that the VAST majority of atheists on the internet support the left of the political spectrum? There's a few liberals like you, and then a small spattering of conservatives and religious trolls.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:48 pm

rachelbean wrote:
eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote: Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
Well I would say amongst atheist lefties that it is definitely not commonly true, because they tend to be science oriented (of course, not all). However, there definitely is a large part of the left (at least a large part of my circles in the US) that is aggressively anti-GMO. It is one of my (and I'm sure many scientists) continual frustrations.


It's also important to be careful about our terms. Many atheists "lefties" aren't really "leftist" as much as they are liberal. Liberals tend to be open to discussion of ideas -- I try, for example, to be open to argument about even my most sincerely and certainly held ideas. I'm happy to discuss global warming/climate change, moon landings, the shape of the Earth, whatever -- some "lefties" these days are going so far as to try to liken challenges to climate science to hate speech and there are efforts afoot to criminalize it.

The GMO people, I've found, no matter how much evidence you show them, they're too dug in change. They've invested emotionally in the issue.

Again, that doesn't mean they're more likely to do that than conservatives. Conservatives believe loads of crap. I'm just pointing out that there's plenty of this to go around.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:52 pm

eRvin wrote:noise
Oh fuck off.

I'm tired of your bullshit.

I'd address anything worthwhile, if I didn't have to wade through your horseshit oblique and not-so-oblique insults. You seem incapable of having a discussion without making it about insults, snark and snot-nosed comments.

Fuck off with yo bad self.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:54 pm

Forty Two wrote:
rachelbean wrote:
eRvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote: Have you ever had a discussion with a lefty person about Monsanto or GMOs? They reject the mountains upon mountains of data that prove GMOs safe and reliable - at least as safe as non-GMO food - with not a shred of evidence of any negative effects attributable to GMOs, but they still hang on to their "frankenfood" nonsense.
Cool story, bro. Have you talked to many lefties during your sheltered life, by chance?
Well I would say amongst atheist lefties that it is definitely not commonly true, because they tend to be science oriented (of course, not all). However, there definitely is a large part of the left (at least a large part of my circles in the US) that is aggressively anti-GMO. It is one of my (and I'm sure many scientists) continual frustrations.


It's also important to be careful about our terms. Many atheists "lefties" aren't really "leftist" as much as they are liberal.


If they vote to the left of the political spectrum, then they are lefties.

Liberals tend to be open to discussion of ideas


As are most lefties. :roll:

I'm happy to discuss global warming/climate change, moon landings, the shape of the Earth, whatever -- some "lefties" these days are going so far as to try to liken challenges to climate science to hate speech and there are efforts afoot to criminalize it.


Oh ffs you come out with some utter rubbish. You really need to get out into the real world.
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Re: Conservatives: We Don't Need No Stinkin' Data!

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:57 pm

Forty Two wrote:
eRvin wrote:noise
Oh fuck off.

I'm tired of your bullshit.

I'd address anything worthwhile, if I didn't have to wade through your horseshit oblique and not-so-oblique insults. You seem incapable of having a discussion without making it about insults, snark and snot-nosed comments.

Fuck off with yo bad self.
Weak as piss. You have a track record of making outlandish claims and then slinking off to some other part of the internet and avoiding addressing rebuttals. You are failing, yet again, with your ridiculous broad-brush strokes tarring "the left" or "progressives" due to the actions of a noisy minority. Show some reasoning abilities in your posts and you might not get called on your bullshit so often.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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