English over the pond

[Elessarina]

*Split from thread http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 28#p217628 per lbon's request*

RD would not have misspelled 'organised'.
.

"ize" suffixes were the original and correct English usage, the Oxford English Dictionary recognises both

[lordpasternack]

RD would not have misspelled 'organised'.
.

"ize" suffixes were the original and correct English usage, the Oxford English Dictionary recognises both

Actually, "-ise" was the original English convention. It entered our language via French, and their convention was and is "-ise". Per'aps because zey do not like ze zaids or somtheeng.

The usage of "-ize" in the English language took foot a little later, and is presumably a result of some people learning their Greek/Latin, discovering the root suffixes "-izein" (Greek) and/or "-izare" (Latin), and changing their English spellings accordingly to more closely resemble the roots of the suffix.

You'll find that the OED 'favours' the usage of "-ize" over "-ise", because it basically has more historical etymological merit than "-ise". But the latter still has a good stake to claim in official linguistic merit, and I happen to use it myself. I happen to use it myself because it happens to have been the spelling I was most familiar with when learning to read and write - but it is pretty neat in that it also helps you avoid misspellings of words that shouldn't end in "-ize" - like circumcise, surprise and devise - and the spelling 'advertise' is favoured (or favored) even by American dictionaries as being a more proper spelling - for pedantic reasons that you probably don't want me to delve into by this point.

But yes, it is essentially fallacious to think of "-ize" as being an American creation, with "-ise" being the 'correct' English suffix.

[gooseboy]

hehehe.... I grew up with 'ise', but now I love using 'ize'. I don't rationalize it, or even theorize or circumcise it, ize just do it.

[irreligionist]

hehehe.... I grew up with 'ise', but now I love using 'ize'. I don't rationalize it, or even theorize or circumcise it, ize just do it.

Good thing you don't circumcise it

[charlou]

I stand suitably chastized.

[Elessarina]

RD would not have misspelled 'organised'.
.

"ize" suffixes were the original and correct English usage, the Oxford English Dictionary recognises both

Actually, "-ise" was the original English convention. It entered our language via French, and their convention was and is "-ise". Per'aps because zey do not like ze zaids or somtheeng.

The usage of "-ize" in the English language took foot a little later, and is presumably a result of some people learning their Greek/Latin, discovering the root suffixes "-izein" (Greek) and/or "-izare" (Latin), and changing their English spellings accordingly to more closely resemble the roots of the suffix.

You'll find that the OED 'favours' the usage of "-ize" over "-ise", because it basically has more historical etymological merit than "-ise". But the latter still has a good stake to claim in official linguistic merit, and I happen to use it myself. I happen to use it myself because it happens to have been the spelling I was most familiar with when learning to read and write - but it is pretty neat in that it also helps you avoid misspellings of words that shouldn't end in "-ize" - like circumcise, surprise and devise - and the spelling 'advertise' is favoured (or favored) even by American dictionaries as being a more proper spelling - for pedantic reasons that you probably don't want me to delve into by this point.

But yes, it is essentially fallacious to think of "-ize" as being an American creation, with "-ise" being the 'correct' English suffix.

I thought for organized it was originally "ize" as "ise" was considered too French?

[starr]

All in favour of moving the spelling derail to a new thread.....???




The ize have it (or is that the ise?)

[lordpasternack]

I thought for organized it was originally "ize" as "ise" was considered too French?

What do you mean? You think that the English would have deliberately tweaked the spelling just to avoid 'being French'? The contrary was more accurate. From after 1066 up until around the reign of Henry IV (starting in 1399) - French was the official language spoken in the English parliament, and by the Royal family. It was the language that any self-respecting well-bred family in England knew and had their children learn: the élite; the bourgeoisie, and the petit bourgeois. In short, French was vogue.

Its mark on the English language remains - as the five pure French words in the last two sentences of the previous paragraph show. And there are plenty more French-derived words that have been anglocised...

[Elessarina]

I thought for organized it was originally "ize" as "ise" was considered too French?

What do you mean? You think that the English would have deliberately tweaked the spelling just to avoid 'being French'? The contrary was more accurate. From after 1066 up until around the reign of Henry IV (starting in 1399) - French was the official language spoken in the English parliament, and by the Royal family. It was the language that any self-respecting well-bred family in England knew and had their children learn: the élite; the bourgeoisie, and the petit bourgeois. In short, French was vogue.

Its mark on the English language remains - as the five pure French words in the last two sentences of the previous paragraph show. And there are plenty more French-derived words that have been anglocised...

I am only going on what I read somewhere, didn't need an essay put down

[CJ]

Spelling. I understand the concept but never seemed to have managed it in practice.

[charlou]

I thought for organized it was originally "ize" as "ise" was considered too French?

What do you mean? You think that the English would have deliberately tweaked the spelling just to avoid 'being French'? The contrary was more accurate. From after 1066 up until around the reign of Henry IV (starting in 1399) - French was the official language spoken in the English parliament, and by the Royal family. It was the language that any self-respecting well-bred family in England knew and had their children learn: the élite; the bourgeoisie, and the petit bourgeois. In short, French was vogue.

Its mark on the English language remains - as the five pure French words in the last two sentences of the previous paragraph show. And there are plenty more French-derived words that have been anglocised...

I am only going on what I read somewhere, didn't need an essay put down

It's interesting stuff. Thanks for posting it, lordp. <--- Un verre de vin français de fantaisie pour vous, mon ami.

[Pappa]

I always loved this:

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/?view=uk

[FBM]

If you haven't read Bill Bryson's The Mother Tongue, you've missed quite a treat.

[gooseboy]

If you haven't read Bill Bryson's The Mother Tongue, you've missed quite a treat.

Yes - that book is great. As are his others for that matter.

[FBM]

If you haven't read Bill Bryson's The Mother Tongue, you've missed quite a treat.

Yes - that book is great. As are his others for that matter.

I've only read that, Made in America, A Short History of Nearly Everything and A Walk in the Woods so far, but now that you mention it, it is about time for another Amazon splurge...