Rationality Ain't Sexy

[LaMont Cranston]

First of all, let me say that I'm a big fan of rational thought. I think it's a very good thing. I also get it that some people think that because I'm a theist that I must be irrational, or that theism and rationality are incompatible. I don't find that to be the case, and we can get into that on this thread if you're interested.

When I say that "Rationality Ain't Sexy," what I mean is that rational thought has very limited appeal. If you are somebody who values rational thinking and wishes to promote it as a cause or for some other reason (i.e. it might help create a better world), then it seems to me that your rational thinking would have you examine how you can best achieve your agenda. If rational thought is limited to a rather small segment of the greater society...academia, so-called intelligent types, philosophers, etc...then, most likely, rational thought will only achieve limited success.

So, what this thread is about is considering how to make rationality more sexy so that it will have greater appeal. If we consider ourselves to be rational thinkers, and we would like to see it make a larger impact, how about we use this thread to look at ways that could possibly happen.

OK, here we go...

[AshtonBlack]

I would start with a "Critical Thinking" class in school, to be done as early as is appropriate.

[Azathoth]

Maybe addressing the plague of popular culture spoon fed to the proletariat to keep them stupid would be a more noble goal. I can't see fundie-debating idol taking off myself

[MissingNo.]

I would start with a "Critical Thinking" class in school, to be done as early as is appropriate.

I agree. In my 11th grade philosophy course, we spent a few days examining various logical fallacies. I remember thinking "it's nice that we're studying these but this is pretty fundamental stuff. Why should we wait until an 11th grade elective to learn this?"

[Feck]

I would start with a "Critical Thinking" class in school, to be done as early as is appropriate.

Start in primary school ...explaining "real stuff" and "stories" are different .

Have them do work on spotting lies and bias in the media,when they are a little older.

final year exam questions to include critical thoughts on Religion.

[CookieJon]

Who says rationality ain't sexy??



Case closed!

[floppit]

I don't think anything can make it sexy, it isn't. Good reasoning is slow, effort laden and the primary reward is to become more aware of what you don't know!

All that said, people try it, theists and atheists try it, whether through need as in working out what clothes to put on by judging the weather or interest. because of that I think what matters most is to have the tools available to anyone that does get interested and that's where I think education comes in, critical thinking in schools as has been said above, common logical fallacies, the process of peer review and how it impacts on both theories and conclusions, the importance of disciplined dialogue and what reasoning has given us, how it's associated with medicine, longevity - even the process of driving a car. I often wonder when people say they don't trust science if they drive because if I didn't have a strong trust in the laws of physics and the engineering mathematics behind car design I sure as hell wouldn't hurtle along at 80 MPH in a metal box!

To want to reason better for it's own sake rather than just to get by will always be a minority option but if the tools are out there for all then the numbers in the minority will still grow and that will be a positive thing.

[Little Idiot]

Who says rationality ain't sexy??



Case closed!

Your argument is well thought out and clearly presented, however I feel it needs a little more depth and width, particularly more supporting evidence (in picture form) to support your thesis that 'rationality is sexy'

[charlou]

I find a rational mind as part of the overall character of a person an important part of attraction. On its own though, no.

[charlou]

Oh, should have read the op, not just the title.

[Skinny Puppy]

LaMont Cranston wrote:

First of all, let me say that I'm a big fan of rational thought. I think it's a very good thing. I also get it that some people think that because I'm a theist that I must be irrational, or that theism and rationality are incompatible. I don't find that to be the case, and we can get into that on this thread if you're interested.

I’d agree that many think that theists can’t see the big picture. Here’s a good example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Polkinghorne

I have one of his books called Quantum Physics and Theology.

He’s obviously thought extensively on this issue and has made a commitment to what he believes to be correct. I disagree with him, but I’ll give him credit for not accepting anything without subjecting it to a thorough and intensive thought process, and not just accepting a dogmatic and mindless approach to theism which many fundies are wont to do without even having a basic grasp on what it is they agree or disagree with.

Too many just follow blindly without questioning why they believe what they believe and that’s a trap because it closes one’s mind to the rational thought process. While no one can state with certainty whether we’re here because the conditions in the universe simply allow our existence or whether there is a designer, one can weigh the evidence both pro and con and then make an intelligent decision based upon what appears to be the most likely answer.

Nobody has the gift of truth, however we do have rational thinking minds and it we throw off the propaganda that we’ve been fed and seek the truth, as best we can, then we can live our lives based upon what appears to be the most probable answer. At no time though, should we dig our heels in and refuse to look at others’ opinions and what they accept as the truth otherwise we can become as dogmatic in our beliefs as they are.

[Surendra Darathy]

Well, rationalisation isn't sexy, either. It's the approach of trying to dramatise rationality on the basis that rationality ain't sexy.

The ideal situation for the person who values rationality is to be able to turn it off at the drop of a hat pair of knickers, or something like that.

O hai. I can does it. It's getting it back again that's so difficult.

[Sisifo]

Maybe less Rational thinking and more Rational doing?

[LaMont Cranston]

OK, it's a new morning, and I've had my coffee...

It seems to me that rational thinkers should be able to apply rational concepts to many parts of their lives. If we are just considering the ongoing differences of opinion that exist between believers and non-believers, it is obvious that rationality gets thrown into the conversations. Generally speaking, non-believers think that believers believe irrational things, and believers come back with their own arguments that include the idea that not everything can be explained on a rational basis.

It is a rather limited use of rationality to just use it in the ongoing God vs no god debates. One of the things I'd like us to consider...if you're interested...is what we come up with if we examine parts of human behavior under the microscope of rational thinking. For instance, if we consider ourselves to be rational and have the goal of achieving better relationships with our fellow human beings, what works best, being kind and considerate or being mean-spirited and inconsiderate? If we examine such things as violence, vengenance, forgiveness, compassion, etc. as rationally as we can, what do we actually find is the most successful and efficient way to conduct ourselves if we wish to attain certain goals in life, including a happy marriage, financial success, more together children, beter health and fitness or whatever?

If you think this is a covert attempt to sneak up on religion, we can go there, but we don't have to. How about we take all the religious window dressing off of the table and consider certain actions, emotions, etc. for what they are and what we get out of them? How about we subject anger, a so-called negative emotion, and forgiveness, a so-called positive act, to the scientific method and examine how well they work in our lives?

[Feck]

I'm not rational I don't think many people really are when it comes to emotions .... Who wants to hang around with a Vulcan ?

I try and be empathic when dealing with others "Do unto others ......" seems to work .