Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by laklak » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:40 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:44 pm
After Brexit I'm taking biscuits'n gravy on the road, and ma loud mouth too! :biggrin:
One of the biggest food thingys there now is 'Murikan BBQ, like slow smoked but not particularly well done and their sauces are absolute shit. I'm telling you, fucking biscuits and gravy, Brunswick stew, Johnny cake, pulled pork, and Texas brisket could make a man fucking RICH, dude. I got the contacts if you're interested. Srsly.

Imagine them all tucking into pintos and bacon or collards or fried okra. They BOIL beef, FFS, they wouldn't know what fucking hit them if they got them some real food.
Last edited by laklak on Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:44 am

Hermit wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:23 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:56 am
Hermit wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:43 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:27 am
I'll leave them to that. My point stands on its own.
Your point being that a person who says they're worried their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture being accused of being racist, xenophobic, and nationalist is batshit?

I agree with you when that person opines the cause of a culture's death the internet's social media, atheism, the failure of modern education, political correctness or feminism, but I suspect you were motivated to start this thread by reading the one at Ratzkep I linked to earlier, where none of these factors got a mention. It featured instead two posters who are racist or xenophobic to the core.
I said that there can be more to a person's desire to protect their culture than racism, and that arguing they've essentially overvalued a trivial accident of birth is batshit.
Not in the opening post - you know, the one I have issues with - you didn't. Without the word "can" which you are trying to slip in now, it was categorical, along the lines of it is batshit to accuse a person who says they're worried their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture of being racist, xenophobic, and nationalist. You were that categorical. Not a single word making your rant conditional in any way. Not even a tiny one like "can".

And rewording "the great replacement" as "their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture" does not hide your unnamed someone's racism, xenophobia and/or nationalism.
I'm not slipping anything in. It fits what I said just fine. As for replacing, again, the replacement fits my point just fine and only takes away from those who don't want to entertain it, even for a minute.

Would anyone be surprised to learn a more robust argument lay beneath the person's own seemingly racist statement? Then why should I limit myself to the narrowest interpretation of it? Because it suits your purposes Hermit?

This is a goddamn conversation isn't it? :biggrin:
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:34 am

laklak wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:40 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:44 pm
After Brexit I'm taking biscuits'n gravy on the road, and ma loud mouth too! :biggrin:
One of the biggest food thingys there now is 'Murikan BBQ, like slow smoked but not particularly well done and their sauces are absolute shit. I'm telling you, fucking biscuits and gravy, Brunswick stew, Johnny cake, pulled pork, and Texas brisket could make a man fucking RICH, dude. I got the contacts if you're interested. Srsly.

Imagine them all tucking into pintos and bacon or collards or fried okra. They BOIL beef, FFS, they wouldn't know what fucking hit them if they got them some real food.
Boiled beef!? It's worse than I thought, they need reeducation pronto. :nono:
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by laklak » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:37 am

It's a fucking abomination. Once they the 51st State we sort they ass out.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Hermit » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:55 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:44 am
Would anyone be surprised to learn a more robust argument lay beneath the person's own seemingly racist statement? Then why should I limit myself to the narrowest interpretation of it? Because it suits your purposes Hermit?
My purposes? No. Try going by Svarty's own words. Here are two examples: "we HAVE TO be racist, or we'll be overrun and overwhelmed." (four months ago) and "...I'm both a racist and a misanthrope..." (seven years before that).

There are more of them in between, but with these two this point is sufficiently made: People who say they're worried their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture are racist, xenophobic, and/or nationalist fucks.
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:22 am

No, no they're not. They may be.

What did you think of my point about investment? I haven't seen it raised anywhere else, but it's something I've often wondered about when I encounter the usual "what's there to be proud of, you were just born there" line.
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by JimC » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:23 am

Hermit wrote:

People who say they're worried their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture are racist, xenophobic, and/or nationalist fucks.
In some cases that might be correct, but it's not as absolutist as you infer. There are many people, particularly older members of settled western societies, who are not at heart racist but who are shell-shocked by a variety of cultural changes. Rather than labelling them as racist Trump supporters automatically, some form of dialog might allow them to gradually absorb the new zeitgeist...
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Hermit » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:56 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:22 am
No, no they're not. They may be.
What?

"Someone" who wrote "we HAVE TO be racist, or we'll be overrun and overwhelmed" is maybe not racist after he also wrote "a feeling that the "Great Replacement" thesis might actually have some truth to it" is maybe not a racist, xenophobic, and/or nationalist fucks?

"Someone" who wrote "...I'm both a racist and a misanthrope..." is maybe not a racist?
JimC wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:23 am
Hermit wrote:People who say they're worried their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture are racist, xenophobic, and/or nationalist fucks.
In some cases that might be correct, but it's not as absolutist as you infer. There are many people, particularly older members of settled western societies, who are not at heart racist but who are shell-shocked by a variety of cultural changes.
Indeed, but in his opening post Sean Hayden has simply and categorically claimed that it is batshit to accuse a person who says they're worried their culture is dying out under the influence of another culture of being racist, xenophobic, and nationalist, and by way of agreeing in part, I listed half a dozen non-racist causes of shell-shock here. We are not talking about them, are we? I think Sean was motivated to create this thread after reading at least a few of the latest posts concerning Svartalf's views and Fallible's reaction to them, and laklak has seen a connection between them too. In that context, Sean is wrong with what he wrote in the OP.

Now, Shane, be honest; what was the immediate trigger that made you start this thread?
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:01 am

I'm not seeing your point Hermit, do you have one beyond calling Svarty racist?

I believe my opening post allows for a broader discussion.
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:15 am

To recap, I'm not convinced people who want to preserve some aspect of their culture have simply overvalued the trivial accident of their birth place.

There is a considerable investment, can be, from the individual, family, and community which should be taken into account.

Perhaps the investment was worth it, in cases like Europe's intellectual history for example, and perhaps not, in cases like US segregation for example.

Of course, these exact sentences may not appear in the opening post, or in this order, but they don't contain anything at odds with it either and reasonably follow from it.
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:39 am

I just saw this
What?

"Someone" who wrote "we HAVE TO be racist, or we'll be overrun and overwhelmed" is maybe not racist after he also wrote "a feeling that the "Great Replacement" thesis might actually have some truth to it" is maybe not a racist, xenophobic, and/or nationalist fucks?

"Someone" who wrote "...I'm both a racist and a misanthrope..." is maybe not a racist?
Yeah sure, why not? All the racist I know deny that shit like their lives depended on it. Are you saying a person who denies being a racist can actually be a racist! Wha!? Obviously not, they said so. :lol:

Another possibility is to accept a label you don't believe in because you see fighting it as a hindrance to your bigger point, and fuck'em if they can't take a joke.

Or he could be a racist...

What's it got to do with my point about not going there and not seeing the value in the "you were just born there" bit?
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:50 am

It's kind of relative. I'm sure we can all agree that Taliban culture is worse than "our" western culture, and we'd all fight like hell to stop it from polluting our culture. I don't think that makes us racist/xenophobic/nationalist. And there's probably other cultures that we don't see as a polluting influence on ours thanks to similarities. And then there's a sliding scale between the two. Racism/xenophobia probably sits in the middle somewhere.
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by rainbow » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:28 am

laklak wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:40 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:44 pm
After Brexit I'm taking biscuits'n gravy on the road, and ma loud mouth too! :biggrin:
One of the biggest food thingys there now is 'Murikan BBQ, like slow smoked but not particularly well done and their sauces are absolute shit. I'm telling you, fucking biscuits and gravy, Brunswick stew, Johnny cake, pulled pork, and Texas brisket could make a man fucking RICH, dude. I got the contacts if you're interested. Srsly.

Imagine them all tucking into pintos and bacon or collards or fried okra. They BOIL beef, FFS, they wouldn't know what fucking hit them if they got them some real food.
I once went to New York, and was told their cheesecake is the best.

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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 am

Who's complaining about their culture being at risk? What's the risk and who or what is it at risk from?

Context is important here. Are we talking about some specific threat to the way of life and/or mode of expression of a particular demographic? Are we talking about a conflict between groups with a particular identity? Are we talking about cultural drift?

If, say, you're an upstanding member of the Southern Baptist community and you say that the nation's Christians and Christian values are being undermined by Californian sodomites you're, erm, fears and concerns are operating across several cultural contexts there.

These things are knotty. So again...

Who's complaining about their culture being at risk? What's the risk and who or what is it at risk from?
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Re: Xenophobic Nationalist, oh shut up already.

Post by rainbow » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:22 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 am
Who's complaining about their culture being at risk? What's the risk and who or what is it at risk from?
They have less culture than a petri dish.
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