In any given field, the disagreements are right at the edge of expanding knowledge, and are often fairly abstruse. Your banal comment does not change the fact that there is, on major environmental and climate issues, a strong and broad consensus of the vast majority of scientists working in the field. What they publish needs to be peer reviewed - if they make errors, they will be seen, and the consensus becomes stronger. It is clear that you have no idea about the actual practice of science.Cunt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:42 pmMy point was that the scientists disagree on what is more important.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:25 amDon't pretend you are engaging honestly. The reason you ask so many inane questions is to make it nearly impossible to reply in a coherent fashion.
Listen to the scientists means listen to the scientific concensus as opposed to shock jocks and lobbyists. It's not a hard concept, and certainly not worth ten questions in reply.
Which scientists are 'right'?
Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
My understanding is that most scientists think human activity is a driver of climate change, and that serious consequences are in the offing as a result. I do not understand there to be a consensus on the amount of future temperatures of the Earth, the melting of ice caps, or the rising of sea levels ,that kind of thing. There are too many varied models for that to be a consensus, and there have been too many incorrect predictions demonstrating that various models have failed or were inaccurate.
There is also no consensus of which I'm aware as to what the solution to climate change is. I subscribe to the technological solutions to climate change. Specifically, a massive increase in nuclear power being a good requirement, perhaps helped by as much solar and wind as is feasible, and technological cleaning methods which would capture carbon dioxide and pollutants via technological means and lock them in solid states or react them with other chemicals. I have no confidence in "carbon credit" and "carbon tax" schemes and strategies. They are marginal benefits, at best.
There is also no consensus of which I'm aware as to what the solution to climate change is. I subscribe to the technological solutions to climate change. Specifically, a massive increase in nuclear power being a good requirement, perhaps helped by as much solar and wind as is feasible, and technological cleaning methods which would capture carbon dioxide and pollutants via technological means and lock them in solid states or react them with other chemicals. I have no confidence in "carbon credit" and "carbon tax" schemes and strategies. They are marginal benefits, at best.
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Figures. JimC was talking about those who influence the political process in the US. It's not people on average income. It's the 1% in the US that do that. Of course, you've been told this at least twice already, so we can only assume you are being disingenuous on purpose.Cunt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:50 pmhttps://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... -world.aspFigures.Hermit wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:32 am
Until I see one I will remain convinced that you pulled a massively wrong figure out of your arse.
No way is JimC anywhere near the top 1%. He probably is not even in the top 20%.
In Australia your annual income needed to be more than $40k to make it into the top 20% in 2016, and if your income were $180k or higher, you made it into the top 4% in 2014.
JimC cannot be regarded as wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. He does live in relative comfort, though. After teaching maths and science full time continuously for 40 years it would seem odd if he did not.
You only want to compare yourself to your wealthy neighbours. I am talking about the real 1%.
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
"worldwide income disparities"
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Yes, because we live in the world.Hermit wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:22 am"worldwide income disparities"
By being in the 1% worldwide, many corporations around the world come slurping at our disposable income. We have a lot more influence than those not in the 1%
Voters in the US have a pretty great effect. I mean, look at how much money (hollywood, most of mainstream media and facebook/twitter/google are examples) was spent to follow Obama with another Clinton and voters were able to have a different choice.
We the wealthiest in history have no business pretending the world is not our responsibility. Next you'll be telling me you can just pay a tax to fix all the pollution we are causing, rather than changing our polluting ways...
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Why not look at the example I showed you, JimC?JimC wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:07 pmIn any given field, the disagreements are right at the edge of expanding knowledge, and are often fairly abstruse. Your banal comment does not change the fact that there is, on major environmental and climate issues, a strong and broad consensus of the vast majority of scientists working in the field. What they publish needs to be peer reviewed - if they make errors, they will be seen, and the consensus becomes stronger. It is clear that you have no idea about the actual practice of science.Cunt wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:42 pmMy point was that the scientists disagree on what is more important.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:25 amDon't pretend you are engaging honestly. The reason you ask so many inane questions is to make it nearly impossible to reply in a coherent fashion.
Listen to the scientists means listen to the scientific concensus as opposed to shock jocks and lobbyists. It's not a hard concept, and certainly not worth ten questions in reply.
Which scientists are 'right'?
It's not that the scientists don't agree, it's that they aren't looking at the same elements of the problem.
Should pipelines be installed? Or should the oil be transported by rail/truck/wheelbarrow?
If you say that we shouldn't be reliant on oil, you may be right, but it won't change the immediate need for it.
So as I pointed out, some scientists insist that less oil is spent in transport, and less oil is spilled, by a pipeline than by other transport means. Other scientists insist that the environmental damage of installing the pipeline is greater than can be accounted for by those savings.
While neither is 'right', and neither is 'wrong', their conclusions don't come out the same.
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
I notice you keep wilfully ignoring the point of the 1% argument. How dishonest can you be?
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Worldwide income disparities become relevant to discussing poverty, wealth, the top 1% and stuff like that when we have a worldwide government.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Cmon, man. He’s seen stuff, he’s heard stuff and he’s watched stuff. Now you’re asking him to think about stuff. There are limits, man. Limits.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:17 amHow many questions can one man ask in a post?Cunt wrote:Which ones?
I've seen scientists quoted in favour of pipelines, and against them. I just watch them argue, and see if any of them seem shifty and sketchy.
Which scientists should I listen to about the pipelines, pErvinalia? The ones who focus madly on any environmental risk? The ones who focus madly on the extra fuel (and pollution) expended in other methods of moving the oil around? What if they disagree? Should I follow a particular political party for the best answers? Who decides what 'best' means? The environmental scientist who doesn't want a pipeline? Or the environmental scientist who doesn't want the extra pollution from trucking the product?
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Not at all dishonest.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:32 amI notice you keep wilfully ignoring the point of the 1% argument. How dishonest can you be?
We ARE the 1%
If you aren't running the government, it is because you have abdicated your responsibility to others.
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
A very, very silly post. You ignore the real point about how the 1% top wealthy in countries like the US have a great deal of power over the political process, and the subversion of democracy that represents, and witter on about how we are all wealthy compared to the world's population as a whole. However true that may be, it is utterly irrelevant to the political debate on this issue, which you seem to be rather clueless about...Cunt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:21 pmNot at all dishonest.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:32 amI notice you keep wilfully ignoring the point of the 1% argument. How dishonest can you be?
We ARE the 1%
If you aren't running the government, it is because you have abdicated your responsibility to others.
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
For the nth time, in our body politic, we are not. Trump is disproportionately influenced by the 1% of US society, not those on middle incomes.Cunt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:21 pmNot at all dishonest.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:32 amI notice you keep wilfully ignoring the point of the 1% argument. How dishonest can you be?
We ARE the 1%
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
Yet he panders to the perception of the middle class - note the trucker caps.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:57 pmFor the nth time, in our body politic, we are not. Trump is disproportionately influenced by the 1% of US society, not those on middle incomes.Cunt wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:21 pmNot at all dishonest.pErvinalia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:32 amI notice you keep wilfully ignoring the point of the 1% argument. How dishonest can you be?
We ARE the 1%
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Re: Should US Style Capitalism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?
"trucker caps"?
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
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