The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by Svartalf » Thu May 20, 2021 7:56 am

Tero wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:48 pm
4.4 million in bitcoin?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/19/politics ... index.html
Can the payment be traced, or can that be noticed only by studying the blockchain when the thief disposes of his ill gotten gains?
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu May 20, 2021 8:06 am

If they ever want to convert the bitcoin to fiat currency, it will leave a trace. They're probably in Russia where no one gives a fuck.
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:53 am

Do bacteria get old and die?
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by Tero » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:08 am

Yeah. Bacteria can divide or die. Those are the only jobs. Divide a few times before you die. For lack of nutrients.
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by JimC » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:57 pm

Some of them can also form extremely tough spores, which can remain dormant for many years, even centuries, in dry or freezing conditions, then resume active bacterial life when conditions are right.
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:55 pm

Sneaky buggers.
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by macdoc » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:35 pm

Even travel in space.
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun May 01, 2022 12:47 am

--horizontal gene transfer, you bastid!

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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by JimC » Sun May 01, 2022 2:45 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 12:47 am
--horizontal gene transfer, you bastid!
The more examples of such processes are found, the more Richard Dawkins "selfish gene" model seems fitting...

If a gene can make more copies of itself by successfully "invading" another whole constellation of genes (and adding to the fitness of such a different phenotype), then it has won a useful battle against its competitors for similar functions, and will rise in frequency...
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by macdoc » Sun May 01, 2022 5:51 am

Adding to the fitness sounds a bit directed, fitness randomly arising yeah I concur. Your post suggests a gene has will but rather the host organism may have good luck with a random benefical gene swap :prof:
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by JimC » Sun May 01, 2022 6:22 am

macdoc wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 5:51 am
Adding to the fitness sounds a bit directed, fitness randomly arising yeah I concur. Your post suggests a gene has will but rather the host organism may have good luck with a random benefical gene swap :prof:
Not really. Dawkin's concept was of selection happening at the level of alternative alleles for a particular locus, but with the proviso that a significant component of an allele's fitness was whether it worked well within a cooperative of genes to maximise the fitness of the organism it occurred within. Normally, certainly in most animals, a gene's only chances occur within the gene pool of the species in question. However, horizontal gene transfer in bacteria (and sometimes in plants) gives an extra option for any given allele. Of course, they are not consciously trying to achieve goals, nor are they selfish as the term is used in a human context, but genes (or, to be technically correct, alleles) can increase their proportional presence in a broader gene pool if they are able to successfully manage a horizontal transfer. It is true that such a successful transfer must involve conferring a selective advantage to the organism it has moved to, or at the very least a neutral effect.
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by macdoc » Sun May 01, 2022 6:53 am

Lot of fancy words for benefical luck from random exchanges + the way evolution works.
You are still hinting at self-directed instead of random.

It's wide spread even between unlikely pairs
The finding suggested that horizontal gene transfer – the movement of useful DNA codes between entirely different species – may be much more widespread in the natural world than we suspected. Now, a different team has analysed the DNA of the whitefly to identify a full 50 genes that appear to have come from plants, and experiments suggest that many of them are used by the fly.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 ... z7S17gqZjG
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun May 01, 2022 8:17 am

Jim isn't hinting at direction, he's just talking about genes in the third person.

Dawkins' big idea was to frame evolution in terms of the gene as the vehicle for the storage and transmission of information across generations. From that perspective it was only a short hop to developing meme theory. If, for example, the religious want to talk about where morality comes from one can point them at the concept of the meme.

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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by JimC » Sun May 01, 2022 9:04 am

macdoc wrote:
Sun May 01, 2022 6:53 am
Lot of fancy words for benefical luck from random exchanges + the way evolution works.
You are still hinting at self-directed instead of random.

It's wide spread even between unlikely pairs
The finding suggested that horizontal gene transfer – the movement of useful DNA codes between entirely different species – may be much more widespread in the natural world than we suspected. Now, a different team has analysed the DNA of the whitefly to identify a full 50 genes that appear to have come from plants, and experiments suggest that many of them are used by the fly.

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 ... z7S17gqZjG
Are we what we eat? Take it back far enough ...mebbe :biggrin:
Not fancy words, but the correct technical language when discussing evolutionary theory and genetics.

Terms I leaned about in my science degree in zoology... :tea:

And yes, horizontal gene transfer (only slightly known about when Dawkins published The Selfish Gene) is clearly a bigger player than was earlier realised. My point is simply that Dawkin's model of considering the gene (technically the allele) as the replication unit subject to selection fits very well when considering a wider gene pool, one that includes all the possible genotypes a gene may replicate within, after jumping from one organism to another. There is absolutely no hint of self-direction required in a considered analysis of this area. Some genes will, by chance, be better fitted to move in the first place, and having moved, to thrive in a new genotype. Their proportion in comparison with alternatives will inevitably increase. A Dawkin's eye view of selection operating at multiple levels copes with these new developments more successfully than a purely individual organism model of selection...
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Re: The how does that work (you can't explain that) thread - Ask here.

Post by pErvinalia » Sun May 01, 2022 10:28 am

You and your fancy talk, Jim.. :nono:
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