White People Are Cowards.

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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:54 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:30 pm
'White America' is just as porous and bankrupt a concept as any nominal so-called race group. The group the author is railing against is 'Republican bigots' and/or 'the Trump administration'. Invoking 'race' in this manner entrenches the the very dichotomies the author cites as a root cause of the policy.
As ani and seabass have described in other threads, identity politics is necessary in a society built around identity politics. What I see going on here is a bunch of white guys getting upset that they are being lumped in with racists and republicans (same thing), and aren't looking at this objectively.
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by JimC » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:47 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:54 am
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:30 pm
'White America' is just as porous and bankrupt a concept as any nominal so-called race group. The group the author is railing against is 'Republican bigots' and/or 'the Trump administration'. Invoking 'race' in this manner entrenches the the very dichotomies the author cites as a root cause of the policy.
As ani and seabass have described in other threads, identity politics is necessary in a society built around identity politics. What I see going on here is a bunch of white guys getting upset that they are being lumped in with racists and republicans (same thing), and aren't looking at this objectively.
"Getting lumped in" with some generalised group is problematic. Being a "white person" doesn't make put you in the same category as red-necked racist morons. It is what a person stands for, and the actions that they will criticise that is important, not the colour of their skin. Earlier in this thread, Seabass himself criticised the rhetoric in the OP article - it does nothing useful whatsoever in combatting Trump policies. It's a bit like that ultra-feminist crap which can be summarised as 'all men are rapists"...
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:24 am

As I said, though, it's only really white guys that can change the situation. That's why the viewpoint has some validity. It doesn't matter what one white guy is like vs another white guy, or a black guy. The point is that it is only white people who can affect the change.

And we see the same dynamic here in Australia. So called progressives still vote for Labor, despite the fact that they are likewise responsible for locking people, including children, up in tropical hellholes where they soon go mad and try and kill themselves. It's the "progressives" in inverted commas that are enabling this shit. You expect conservatives to support inhuman policies. But not progressives.
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by JimC » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:34 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:24 am
As I said, though, it's only really white guys that can change the situation. That's why the viewpoint has some validity. It doesn't matter what one white guy is like vs another white guy, or a black guy. The point is that it is only white people who can affect the change.

And we see the same dynamic here in Australia. So called progressives still vote for Labor, despite the fact that they are likewise responsible for locking people, including children, up in tropical hellholes where they soon go mad and try and kill themselves. It's the "progressives" in inverted commas that are enabling this shit. You expect conservatives to support inhuman policies. But not progressives.
Well, for white people in the US (which is where the OP was all about) that are totally opposed to Trump's policies, and doing what they can to protest against them, it is not very heartening to be called "cowards"...

So, I know the generalisation that you are making, that people have a responsibility to oppose unjust policies, and that those with more effective power in society need to be part of that, but that does not change the fact that over-arching political denunciations seeking to cast guilt on a racial basis are both unproductive and an insult to people who are actively speaking out about injustice.
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:13 am

The guy's delivery is definitely provocative, and perhaps might be self-defeating (I can't really answer whether it is or not), but I can at least understand why he is taking this approach. There's an interesting dynamic here between the oppressed and "allies", and the oppressed and enablers (the Petit-borguoesie of Marx). I have sympathy to both approaches and also understand criticisms of both. I don't think there is an easy answer for the best approach to take to these sorts of problems. A combination of approaches is probably warranted.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by Hermit » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:22 am

:this:
to both your posts, rEv.

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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:23 am

Holy shit, Hermit 100% agrees with something I wrote..! :? :o
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:29 am

What have you done with the real Hermit and rEv?
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by rainbow » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:38 am

Animavore wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:50 pm
rainbow wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:38 pm
Animavore wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:57 am
That's nice.
I don't think that racial categorisation is nice.


What is "nice" about it?
Probably not but it exists and people are judged and prejudiced based on it and denying this doesn't make the problem go away.
There is no scientific basis for classifying humans according to "race". Using ignorance to fight ignorance is in my humble opinion, not the best strategy.

What say you?
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:57 am

I don't think there is any good strategy to confront ignorance. Maybe re-education camps.. :whistle:
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by Rum » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:59 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:13 am
The guy's delivery is definitely provocative, and perhaps might be self-defeating (I can't really answer whether it is or not), but I can at least understand why he is taking this approach. There's an interesting dynamic here between the oppressed and "allies", and the oppressed and enablers (the Petit-borguoesie of Marx). I have sympathy to both approaches and also understand criticisms of both. I don't think there is an easy answer for the best approach to take to these sorts of problems. A combination of approaches is probably warranted.
The style and tone may well be deliberately provocative, but if it is factually incorrect in my view it makes the whole thing invalid. Yet more bending reality to fit one's world view - Trump's forte.

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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by Animavore » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:26 am

rainbow wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:38 am
Animavore wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:50 pm
rainbow wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:38 pm
Animavore wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:57 am
That's nice.
I don't think that racial categorisation is nice.


What is "nice" about it?
Probably not but it exists and people are judged and prejudiced based on it and denying this doesn't make the problem go away.
There is no scientific basis for classifying humans according to "race". Using ignorance to fight ignorance is in my humble opinion, not the best strategy.

What say you?
Race exists as a social construct even though it doesn't exist in biology. Again, you can ignore this all you want and say that we're all the same, but when a percentage of people are getting judged on the colour of their skin, as if they are not the same, saying that racism doesn't exist because you believe races don't exist isn't going to wash.
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by Tyrannical » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:02 am

Whenever anyone mentions the historical atrocity of chattel slavery, white people will emerge from the dark crevices of humanity to gnaw away at the assertion like roaches on a discarded Cheeto. They will explain how mostwhite people didn’t own slaves. They will offer a convoluted explanation about the Confederacy and Southern heritage
No convoluted explanations on how the slave trade was just an extension of Islamic conquest? Timbuktu was an Islamic slaver base since around the 12th century. Though it were the slave trading Jews that introduced black slaves to the 'Christian' world.

And here's a free book about the slave trade.
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/23034/2 ... 3034-h.htm
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by rainbow » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:33 am

Animavore wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:26 am


Race exists as a social construct even though it doesn't exist in biology. Again, you can ignore this all you want and say that we're all the same, but when a percentage of people are getting judged on the colour of their skin, as if they are not the same, saying that racism doesn't exist because you believe races don't exist isn't going to wash.
Where did I say this?

If you can't argue properly, I'm not going to bother anymore.

Do I make myself clear?
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Re: White People Are Cowards.

Post by laklak » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:02 pm

The best response to the OP is "Well, yeah, that's just like, your opinion, man".

What some professional victim writes on a website that the majority of the population doesn't even know about has no actual effect on my life, which is pretty much the only metric I bother with any longer. I've spent too many years in fruitless angst over current events and politics, and have come to the conclusion that I have no control over anything but my own life. And only partial control over that, TBH. Sure, I can vote, but that's about it. I have better things to do with my time then rend my clothes and tear my hair over situations that have, at best, a marginal impact on me and that I cannot change. His opinions mean exactly what mine do in the greater scheme of things, which is jack shit.

I need to get the aft head working on the boat before the end of summer, it works for piss but backs up when you shit in it. That's having an actual, serious impact on my life, and it's something under my control. So it's absolutely true that I give more of a shit about shit then I do this guy's ideological nonsense.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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