'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

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'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Rum » Mon May 21, 2018 9:07 pm

The OP title is a quote from Marx. It is also something Churchill quoted when he was thinking about the end of our (his) civilization as he saw it. When the stories, culture and even religious ideas are no longer passed on to the next generation, the argument goes, the void that is left is quickly filled by the most seductive and easily digestible ideas that present themselves.

It seems to me that the present era exists very much in a bubble of the present. History is sidelined and often ignored and seen as irrelevant, culture is more or less seen in terms of pop-culture and things like comics and computer games have replaced the mythology that was very much the bedrock of the western way of thinking, even if we didn't always recognise it as such.

Are we, then, a people deprived of our history and are we therefore 'easily persuaded'?

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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Svartalf » Mon May 21, 2018 9:51 pm

given the lack of emphasis on humanities in modern education, and the fact that history is not taught in a way that relates particularly to the kin bonds of the students and the co-nationals, that system produces morons with little, if any, sense of history, or of national belonging... the easier for them to be persuaded by traitors to let said traitors pass acts and take decisions hurtful for the nation and its citizens.

What I said is mostly true in France, but I'd not be surprised it it also were so elsewhere.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Seabass » Mon May 21, 2018 10:58 pm

Rum wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:07 pm
The OP title is a quote from Marx. It is also something Churchill quoted when he was thinking about the end of our (his) civilization as he saw it. When the stories, culture and even religious ideas are no longer passed on to the next generation, the argument goes, the void that is left is quickly filled by the most seductive and easily digestible ideas that present themselves.

It seems to me that the present era exists very much in a bubble of the present. History is sidelined and often ignored and seen as irrelevant, culture is more or less seen in terms of pop-culture and things like comics and computer games have replaced the mythology that was very much the bedrock of the western way of thinking, even if we didn't always recognise it as such.

Are we, then, a people deprived of our history and are we therefore 'easily persuaded'?
It sure feels that way. My country is drifting toward fascism at an alarming clip. It seems we learned nothing from Europe's calamitous experiments with fascism only a few decades ago. My only hope is that the absurdity and the travesty that is the Trump presidency stirs the sane people of America into more active and vigorous civic and political engagement.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by laklak » Mon May 21, 2018 11:38 pm

He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Svartalf » Tue May 22, 2018 3:46 am

if education were done properly, the second part of yur assertion would be false because enough folk would know about the past for the current lord of the manor not to have control of it.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by JimC » Tue May 22, 2018 5:00 am

My inner feminist is demanding herstory...
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by pErvinalia » Tue May 22, 2018 5:19 am

Rum wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:07 pm
The OP title is a quote from Marx. It is also something Churchill quoted when he was thinking about the end of our (his) civilization as he saw it. When the stories, culture and even religious ideas are no longer passed on to the next generation, the argument goes, the void that is left is quickly filled by the most seductive and easily digestible ideas that present themselves.

It seems to me that the present era exists very much in a bubble of the present. History is sidelined and often ignored and seen as irrelevant, culture is more or less seen in terms of pop-culture and things like comics and computer games have replaced the mythology that was very much the bedrock of the western way of thinking, even if we didn't always recognise it as such.

Are we, then, a people deprived of our history and are we therefore 'easily persuaded'?
I'm not so sure about that, but your post reminded me of a phenomenon that is happening in Australia. We haven't had a recession for 27 years. So everyone under about 30 has never experienced truly hard economic times (on a national scale, that is). That generation and a half of people are very optimistic due to experiencing 27 years of continual growth. Some social professionals have some concern as to what might happen to these people (mentally speaking) when we drop back into recession at some point in the future.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by pErvinalia » Tue May 22, 2018 5:22 am

laklak wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 11:38 pm
He who controls the past spice controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past. universe.
:awesome:
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Animavore » Tue May 22, 2018 5:22 am

Well both the Americans and British have watered down versions of their own histories which white wash their atrocities and on the Israel thread we have British and US members callously making apologetics for an apartheid regime and blaming the natives for their lot as if they seem blissfully unaware of the hundreds of years of oppression committed by their ancestors and how beating the uncivilized savages into accepting what's good for them is an endless, pointless game.

So yeah. I'd say there's something to be said about whitewashing history. It leads to kids growing up with no responsibility, or compassion for human beings outside of their circle. They become a thorny abstract.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by cronus » Tue May 22, 2018 5:25 am

It's always been the same. The old admonish the young because their ways, their history, is forgotten. And new ways either progressive or regressive come along. But being old they only see the regressive. Afterall the doorway on this world is closing for them.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.


Plato, Republic. (millions of years BC)


Not saying there isn't a human catastrophe in the wind, I'm crumple afterall and humans have made too many bad choices, only saying culture will survive in some form if enough people survive.
Last edited by cronus on Tue May 22, 2018 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by pErvinalia » Tue May 22, 2018 5:25 am

Australia has whitwashed its history. And every time we get a conservative government the attempts to stifle discussion about the less than glorious aspects of our colonial past increase. In fact when you get the arch-conservatives like Abbott and Howard, they even want to increase the glorification of our colonial past (not the slaughtering Aboriginals part).
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Animavore » Tue May 22, 2018 5:29 am

Oh yeah. We do also have an Aussie on that thread trying to blame both sides. Reminds me of Aussies who blame the Aboriginies lot on their own fecklessness, apathy, and childishness.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by cronus » Tue May 22, 2018 5:33 am

History is always propaganda. Unlike archaeology you are adding a narrative which is very often for here in the now socio-political purposes. Many history books deal with leaders for instance. It is a art weighted towards hero-worship(or in the case of Stalin/Hitler/Thatcher anti-hero worship, not the facts in the round of a particular era.
Last edited by cronus on Tue May 22, 2018 5:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by Animavore » Tue May 22, 2018 5:37 am

Like that recent Churchill movie. That bastard set the Black 'n' Tans on us and had racist attitudes towards unruly natives within the Empire that Israeli supporters harbour.
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Re: 'A people deprived of their history are easily persuaded'.

Post by JimC » Tue May 22, 2018 5:39 am

Animavore wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 5:29 am
Oh yeah. We do also have an Aussie on that thread trying to blame both sides. Reminds me of Aussies who blame the Aboriginies lot on their own fecklessness, apathy, and childishness.
Fuck off, Ani. At least I'm not wilfully ignoring the other side, by letting my ideology overwhelm my common sense.
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