War in Syria?

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Re: War in Syria?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:28 pm

They were just trying to export democracy...
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:29 pm

Any excuse is better than none.
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:34 pm

They only stuffed it up a little bit. Tried to export democracy, ended up breeding tens of thousands of terrorists. Close enough..
Last edited by pErvinalia on Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:37 pm

America was behind all terroristic groups at one time. ISIS was America's making.
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:44 pm

They really take real politik to extreme lengths.
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:45 pm

Well no argument with that.
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:48 pm

Yeah right, cause 'merica is basically God. :roll:

The history of ISIS is interesting. I've read a few parts of it that lend themselves to a good conspiracy theory or two. But nothing so crazy as 'merica done it!

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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 pm

Did it not come out of the rebel opposition that America was supporting against Assad?
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 pm

No

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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:54 pm

Also, I think it might be relevant to distinguish between support for something or someone and the creation of the same, and what's with this bizarre notion of absolute responsibility for everything that something or someone may do indefinitely because 10 organizations prior 'merica may have given joe shit a bundle of cash when he was still somebody for something... --whew, that was confusing :hehe:

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Re: War in Syria?

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:03 pm

That was confusing. What's clear, though, is that Merka is funding Islamists in Syria, because they are anti-Assad. That will never backfire. Couldn't possibly happen...
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by Sean Hayden » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:05 pm

It's sad that we went from a nation that wasn't supposed to meddle, to a country in everybody's business. It didn't take very long either!

Will we support another war though? --really, maybe-- I kind of feel like we've been at war my whole life, almost like I'd be surprised to learn through some headline that we hadn't been at war for x number of days or something. I'm trying to say that people may not even notice if we start another war --isn't it just the same war?

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Re: War in Syria?

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:00 pm

Those White Helmets are the real villains, but they've had a lot of help!

'Russian Trolls Denied Syrian Gas Attack—Before It Happened'
Weeks before the world saw the bodies of men, women, and children dead from an apparent Syrian military chemical attack in Douma, Syria, the Russian military was already spreading bizarre conspiracy theories about an impending “false flag” chemical attack carried out by rebels.

Russian conspiracy propaganda and truther chum have been a staple of official discourse whenever Moscow wants to cover up bad behavior by its allies in Damascus. When the Assad regime used sarin nerve agents on the town of Khan Sheikhoun in 2017, Russian officials accused Syrian first responders—a group known as the White Helmets—of fabricating the attacks—saying it was impossible to explain otherwise how the group “managed to work for such a long period of time and remain alive without gas masks and special protection equipment” while documenting the attack.

Russia’s UN Ambassador Vassily Nebenzia has dredged up the same talking points now to label Douma a “pretext” that was “eagerly provided by the White Helmets’ provocateurs.” But this time, the propaganda campaign got a head start—and they’ve even tried to remix old children’s plays and spy novels to make their point.

“What’s perhaps interesting in this one is the way that Russian officialdom started building the narrative on a false flag a month ago,” Ben Nimmo, a researcher at Atlantic Council’s Digital Forensic Research Lab who studies disinformation campaigns, told The Daily Beast. “There’s a measure of foresight and forethought there which is quite interesting.”

Beginning in early March, Russia’s ministry of defense began to claim that it had picked up intelligence about “provocations” planned by Islamist militant groups outside Damascus designed “to accuse government troops of using chemical weapons in the Eastern Ghouta against civilians.” Defense ministry officials later elaborated that the conspiracy to mount false-flag chemical attacks involved a whole cast of characters ranging from U.S. special operations forces operating in the Syrian desert to Free Syrian Army members in the south of the country to al Qaeda members in Idlib Province.

...

Russian diplomats have used the conspiracies floated in March to try and validate their claims of a false flag, but Moscow still can’t seem to get its story straight about whether the conspiracy raised in March involved a fake chemical attack or a real one. The March claims all involved chemical weapons being used by rebels. Russia’s UN ambassador has since argued that there “were no chemical substances found on the ground, no dead bodies found, no poisoned people in the hospitals.”

In the wake of the attack, pro-Russian, pro-Assad and general conspiracy enthusiast social media trolls have joined the fray to make Moscow’s case—with a little help from Russian state media. “[Trump] said let’s pull out of Syria, as a deflection, So that a week later he can declare war,” cried the famously pro-Assad troll Partisangirl. “He knew a chemical false flag was planned.”

Outlets like Sputnik have amplified spy-novel stories about several British commandos captured near the scene of the attack in Douma supposedly operating on behalf of an international Super Friends alliance of the U.S., Israel, Jordan, and the U.K. aiming to thwart the recapture of rebel-held territory.

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Re: War in Syria?

Post by JimC » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:42 am

Forty Two wrote:
JimC wrote:The problem is that Assad definitely has access to chemical weapons, whereas one can only say that it is possible that rebel groups may have access. I agree that it would seem counter-productive for Assad to use them, but if he is convinced that the fog of war will prevent definite proof, then he is counting on the reactions of people like you, 42, to restrain military action against him.

Having said that, there would have to be some fairly telling evidence for me to concede that a military strike was justified...
Since all I've said is that there has to be some fairly telling evidence for me to concede that a military strike was justified, what the fuck is with this nonsense that "reactions of people like you, 42..." is what he'll rely upon to restrain military action?

What is it you are saying? You can oppose military action without fairly telling evidence, and that's just fine. It's not the reaction of a person like you that he's counting on? But, me, oh, me - I'm the kind of person who, if I ask for evidence, he's counting on me?

What the fuck?
Not really having a go at you, I'm saying that Assad will count on many people in the West, including you and probably me, opposing a military strike unless there is very compelling evidence. Basically, I'm saying that Assad is smart enough to realise that proof will be difficult to achieve - if he has in fact done the deed (which I think is more likely than not), he has reason to assume he may get away with it...
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Re: War in Syria?

Post by mistermack » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:39 am

I disagree with that assessment.

This has happened before. If it was Assad last time, (which is doubtful) he now knows full well what the result is likely to be.

Just the simplest weighing of the pros and cons would tell him that the gains from a chemical attack are virtually nothing, and the cons are enormous.

Whereas from the rebels point of view, the pros are enormous, and the cons are felt by others, not them. I think that the likelihood of this being down to Assad is close to nil.

He has conventional weapons that will do the same job, with no cons at all.

And anyway, it's fairly doubtful if there ever was a chemical attack.
It's easy to simulate one for the cameras.
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