Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

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Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:28 am

Perhaps it does, but as a reference class problem, it might just be improbable.


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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Rum » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:51 am

Does any category or descriptor invented by humans exist? Only in the minds of people who subscribe to it as a concept surely.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:15 am

I'd be willing to say that physical manifestations of post-modernism objectively exist. Papers written espousing a post-modernist view objectively exist. Other than that, this thread is pointing to a steaming pile of metaphysics and inviting unwary members to start digging.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by NineBerry » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:22 am

It's not called post-modernism, it's called "email", guys.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by cronus » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:31 am

No, there is no post modernism. Bling culture and trash culture and idiot culture exists. I see nothing post modern in the world today. And modern is a very dubious concept also, considering Caesar Trump.
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:36 am

Well that's settled, then.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by JimC » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:10 am

Luckily, gin is pre-modern, so I have nothing to worry about...
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Hermit » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:59 am

L'Emmerdeur wrote:I'd be willing to say that physical manifestations of post-modernism objectively exist. Papers written espousing a post-modernist view objectively exist. Other than that, this thread is pointing to a steaming pile of metaphysics and inviting unwary members to start digging.
You'd certainly be heading down a rabbit hole if you initiated a discussion with a post-modernist by asking: "Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?" I'd expect the first reaction to be along the lines of "You have no fucking idea about what post-modernism is, or you're just trolling."
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:14 pm

Hermit wrote: I'd expect the first reaction to be along the lines of "You have no fucking idea about what post-modernism is, or you're just trolling."
:ask: But would they really mean it, or would it be an automatic reaction against established modernism?
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Strontium Dog » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:24 pm

I post-think, therefore I am.
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:30 pm

Strontium Dog wrote:I post-think, therefore I am might be.
I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:14 pm

If one examines material postdialectic theory, one is faced with a stark and prescient choice: either reject neocapitalist theory or conclude that culture is capable of progressive significance. In a sense, as Barthes suggests, the deployment of the cultural narrative is focused in an attack upon neocapitalist expressionism concerning the stasis, and some would say the absurdity, in which submodernist sexuality is all too often subsumed.
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by JimC » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:10 pm

:funny: :clap:
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Hermit » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:32 pm

Over the past two decades there has been extensive discussion among critical theorists with regard to the characteristics of modernist versus postmodernist culture; and in recent years these dialogues have begun to devote detailed attention to the specific problems posed by the natural sciences.75 In particular, Madsen and Madsen have recently given a very clear summary of the characteristics of modernist versus postmodernist science. They posit two criteria for a postmodern science:
  • A simple criterion for science to qualify as postmodern is that it be free from any dependence on the concept of objective truth. By this criterion, for example, the complementarity interpretation of quantum physics due to Niels Bohr and the Copenhagen school is seen as postmodernist.76
Clearly, quantum gravity is in this respect an archetypal postmodernist science. Secondly,
  • The other concept which can be taken as being fundamental to postmodern science is that of essentiality. Postmodern scientific theories are constructed from those theoretical elements which are essential for the consistency and utility of the theory.77
Thus, quantities or objects which are in principle unobservable -- such as space-time points, exact particle positions, or quarks and gluons -- ought not to be introduced into the theory.78 While much of modern physics is excluded by this criterion, quantum gravity again qualifies: in the passage from classical general relativity to the quantized theory, space-time points (and indeed the space-time manifold itself) have disappeared from the theory.

However, these criteria, admirable as they are, are insufficient for a liberatory postmodern science: they liberate human beings from the tyranny of ``absolute truth'' and ``objective reality'', but not necessarily from the tyranny of other human beings. In Andrew Ross' words, we need a science ``that will be publicly answerable and of some service to progressive interests.''79 From a feminist standpoint, Kelly Oliver makes a similar argument:
  • ... in order to be revolutionary, feminist theory cannot claim to describe what exists, or, ``natural facts.'' Rather, feminist theories should be political tools, strategies for overcoming oppression in specific concrete situations. The goal, then, of feminist theory, should be to develop strategic theories -- not true theories, not false theories, but strategic theories.80
From Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by laklak » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:43 am

JimC wrote:Luckily, gin is pre-modern, so I have nothing to worry about...
So is beer, wine, whisky, vodka, rum, brandy, tequila,

shit, I think we're on to something here.....
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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