A theory on the college campus issues.

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A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Forty Two » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:50 pm

Here is one idea concerning what is happening on American and some other countries' college campuses.

https://youtu.be/qlfDzfUhzps

What do you think?

Three points- (a) hyper left professoriat, (b) foucoult-ian ideas with pop-psychology bringing in microaggression theory, and (c) students being the ones demanding more speech regulation which resulted essentially from social media - caused a fundamental shift in thinking from the previous generation.

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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by NineBerry » Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:02 pm

Absolute nonsense. The issue is very simple: People who support ideas that are popular are for censoring unpopular ideas while people who are for ideas that are unpopular are against censoring unpopular ideas.

Example: Puritan Christians were in favour of censorship (for example of pornography) when their puritan ideas were mainstream, while today they are all for freedom of expression because otherwise the mainstream will prevent them from distributing their homophobic views.

Other example: Creationists were obviously all for laws dictating what ideas can and cannot be taught in biology class when they could use that to censor away teaching evolution (Monkeys trial) while today they are all in favour of academic freedom and teaching multiple theories because otherwise they have no way to bring creation to the class room.

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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Forty Two » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:21 pm

I can see your point, however, where there may be some difference is that in the past, such as in the 1980s when I was in college, the idea of no-platforming someone with radical, or reactionary, ideas was not considered appropriate, even by folks who strongly opposed the unpopular ideas. There appears to be a shift among students these days, whereas in the past there would be some solidarity among students, identifying with each other, such that they would not want the administration silencing anyone. Now, the students are often the ones calling for the administration to govern what speech is allowed and what isn't.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by NineBerry » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:43 pm

Because in the past, the administration didn't agree with the students, today it mostly does.

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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Forty Two » Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:13 pm

NineBerry wrote:Because in the past, the administration didn't agree with the students, today it mostly does.
I guess, but some in various administrations and/or professors are being driven from their posts by the students. A good example is Yale University, where professor Cristakis was essentially forced out because she wrote a mildly critical email about Halloween costume rules for grown adults attending one of the most elite universities in the world.

These instances are fascinating. I would think that at my university in the 80s, if students treated professors that way, the students would be disciplined or expelled.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:56 pm

My theory is that this 'issue' mostly concerns middle-aged and older gentlemen complaining about the foibles and follies of the young. Cultures drift, sure, but there very little significant cultural drift that can be attributed to this I think. The middle-aged always complain that the young are sending the world to hell in a handbasket. Move over granddad, the world belongs to them now.

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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:59 am

Forty Two wrote:Here is one idea concerning what is happening on American and some other countries' college campuses.

https://youtu.be/qlfDzfUhzps

What do you think?

Three points- (a) hyper left professoriat, (b) foucoult-ian ideas with pop-psychology bringing in microaggression theory, and (c) students being the ones demanding more speech regulation which resulted essentially from social media - caused a fundamental shift in thinking from the previous generation.
I just loaded the video and noticed something in the opening credits which has been bothering me for a while. The reference to the "coddled... generation". This is why I suspect that a lot of the "liberal" consternation about this sort of stuff, while cached in terms of freedom, is actually more conservative. It's common for advocates of "freedom of speech" to refer to the sjw crowd as "coddled" or "sheltered" or not tough enough. Hence the term "snowflake". 42 has used language and concepts like this repeatedly. It suggests that there's an undercurrent of conservatism driving these views. It's a species of social Darwinism. This idea that life is supposed to be tough, and by giving in to the weak we allow weakness to propagate through society. Actually, outside of religious thinking, life isn't required to be tough. Some of these sjw's may indeed have been coddled or sheltered, but that's not an argument against their case. Particularly not if one is an alleged liberal.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:08 am

Because my concentration levels are so shit these days, I'll just comment as I go through the video. Next comment:

The fellow suggests that in the 90's the professoriate distinctly shifts from left-leaning to full on left (paraphrashing). His reasoning was something about the end of the pre-boomer generation and their distinctly conservative ideals. I can't comment on the veracity or likelihood of that being true, but I would image that the elite-left in the universities were reacting to neoliberalism which became dominant in politics in the 80's. That is, a distinct shift to the right in the political landscape, and the undermining of so much of what the left fought for and achieved over the previous decades. If the left wanted to hold onto what they had achieved, some were going to have to fight against the rightward trend.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:20 am

I think what 42 and other liberals/conservatives need to realise is that the "culture war" isn't just being waged from the left on the right. Just the same as they need to realise that the "class war" isn't just being waged from the poor on the rich. Both of those "wars" are being waged from both sides.

What we are seeing now is simply cultural evolution. Cultural evolution didn't just become a thing 20 years ago. It's doing what it always did. Is it any surprise that it's mainly older well-off white guys who are the most vocal about this from the right? It seems to me this is just the same generational whining from older people who are, through the natural passing of time, becoming irrelevant to the future, and even the present. They are being consigned to the past like every other older generation before them was. That's not to say they necessarily don't have any valid points. In some cases, like all past generation, they do. It's just a matter of teasing them out from amidst all the whining.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:27 am

Hyperbole alert! :roll: He says that this isn't occurring in most universities (take note, 42). Only a couple that have 4 year residencies, where the students get immersed in this stuff. So not only is this phenomenon not occurring in wider society, it's not even occurring in the wider university community. Then, probably no more than a minute later he's waving his arms around saying that "as a country we are in BIG trouble. We face an existential threat of coming apart, and this is obvious to everybody". Well Mr Haidt of 7 minutes 30 seconds need to tell Mr Haidt of 1 minute or so ago that he is wrong. They both can't be right. What an amazing jump in logic within one minute. I think he missed a few steps in there...
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:34 am

Brian Peacock wrote:My theory is that this 'issue' mostly concerns middle-aged and older gentlemen complaining about the foibles and follies of the young. Cultures drift, sure, but there very little significant cultural drift that can be attributed to this I think. The middle-aged always complain that the young are send the world to hell in a handbasket. Move over granddad, the world belongs to them now.

Yeah.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:51 am

Another 42 claim. Once again imposing anglo-saxon principles to the rest of the world. We dont have university campuses. We dont have any universities like American ones. We have European universities which are spread through the town and have grown and integrated with the town.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Animavore » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:46 am

I mentioned it before, but there's something creepy about older men who are really interested in what the kids are doing. It's a common trope in horror movies, the older, in his 30s, stoner, waster who hangs around younger parties and is considered weird and lame.

I don't get this obsessive interest I what the kids are at. The kids are doing fine as far as I can see and they'll be alright. Lame old men need to butt the fuck out of their lives. And that includes not voting for atrocious morons because they believe they know what's better for them.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:41 pm

I don't think there's any paedophilia feelings going on. :think: It's just the same phenomenon that's been happening since forever. As power slowly shifts away from those with the power, they get all upset and/or frantic about it.
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Re: A theory on the college campus issues.

Post by Forty Two » Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:46 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Another 42 claim. Once again imposing anglo-saxon principles to the rest of the world. We dont have university campuses. We dont have any universities like American ones. We have European universities which are spread through the town and have grown and integrated with the town.
1. I posted someone else's claim for discussion. Not my claim.

2. I imposed zero principles on rest of the world. I referred specifically to American and "some" other countries. The post does not concern countries that aren't experiencing the on campus problems referred to in the video.

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