Is poverty a moral failing...

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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:24 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
pErvin wrote:Why are you asking Seth? He's not a libertarian, as I've shown numerous times in the past.
Oh. I thought he thought Libertariansim was like totally boss.
He uses it as cover for his hate. When you look into what he actually says, he's no libertarian.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by JimC » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:31 am

He is only a libertarian to the extent that his fantasy version of libertarianism would help Seth himself. Typically by allowing him to play out John Wayne fantasies involving guns...
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:33 am

Yeah, pretty much. He's not interested in the people fighting against a behemoth state that happens to be as hateful and evil towards minorities and the disadvantaged as he himself is.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:02 am

The 'Utopia of Solipsistic Anarchism' does seem a more apt description of the position. 'Political Egoism' also works.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:30 am

I prefer the latter. Anarchism comes from an altruistic basis. Egoism sums up well Seth's selfish ideology.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:57 pm

'Political Egoism' may describe the doctrine, but the 'Utopia of Solipsistic Anarchism' describes the consequences thereof. I guess one might combine these into 'The Political Egoism and the USA'.

I feel a small treatise coming on. ;)
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:02 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:The 'Utopia of Solipsistic Anarchism' does seem a more apt description of the position. 'Political Egoism' also works.
Only to idiots.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:03 pm

pErvin wrote:I prefer the latter. Anarchism comes from an altruistic basis. Egoism sums up well Seth's selfish ideology.
S'wat? Anarchism is the ultimate in selfish egoism made manifest. Its entire basis in philosophy is that the anarchist is responsible to no one but himself.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:57 pm

... and so?
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:57 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:... and so?
...a needle pulling thread...
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:02 pm

... which will bring us back to, "And so?"
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:30 pm

There is no reason behind his philosophy other than selfishness. And by needs that makes him right and everyone else wrong by default. It really is a childish level of debating skill.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Seth » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:34 pm

pErvin wrote:There is no reason behind his philosophy other than selfishness. And by needs that makes him right and everyone else wrong by default. It really is a childish level of debating skill.
Actually I'm being enormously charitable in continuing to attempt to educate you after such a years-long but fruitless effort to raise your consciousness out of the muck where it resides.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:10 am

Hermit's example of poverty on page one, of it being a kind of moral antonym to the glorification of wealth as supported by cherry-picked Bible passages, goes a long way to explaining the roots of what we call 'The Protestant Work Ethic.' This is something we should rightly call 'The Puritan Work Ethic' for it emphasises that one's duty to work is a calling from God, and that the fruits of one's labour is a just tribute for one's forbearance in the face of the vexatious discomfitures and stresses of Earthly existence. Work is a calling from God because God determines the conditions of an individuals existence--God's plan etc--and thus any and every job is ordained and any and every success one has in life becomes something for which God can claim the credit.
Deuteronomy 15:4-6 wrote:4 However, there need be no poor people among you, for in the land the Lord your God is giving you to possess as your inheritance, he will richly bless you, 5 if only you fully obey the Lord your God and are careful to follow all these commands I am giving you today. 6 For the Lord your God will bless you as he has promised, and you will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. You will rule over many nations but none will rule over you.
This passage can be seen as yet another cherry-picked Bible verse in support of personal or wider cultural values. The passage from Deuteronomy tells of how the gitimate enjoyment pecuniary reward comes from doing right by God - and it's just a short hop, skip, and jump from there to saying that if one enjoys pecuniary rewards then it must be because one is doing right by God. Wealth becomes endorsed by God and the wealthy are seen as more godly than the poor as a consequence.

If those in poverty hold these attitudes towards their own deprivation, then they may be prone to the self-loathing despair that comes from considering oneself a failure (in God's eyes at least). If the wealthy hold these attitudes towards their own wealth, then they may be prone to the kind of self-serving aggrandisement that follows from a misplaced sense of one's own goodness or superiority. Either way, these attitudes see the possession of wealth as virtue in and of itself, and presumably the more wealth one possesses the more virtuous one becomes - and vice-versa of course.

However, considering the apparently natural confluence of authority with wealth handed-down judgements that poverty is signifier of innate immorality or ungodliness, a kind of punishment for sin, or, at least, the result of ungodly attitudes and behaviours, begins to look like a rather cheap trick on the part of the wealthy - a trick to justify and excuse that which might otherwise look rather like systematic unfairness in the distribution of necessary resources.

But even if this is a slight-of-hand to justify conspicuous wealth, or just a means to deal with any unease that follows from noting disparities and inequities between different sections of the community, if these kinds of attitudes are prevalent within society they are prevalent among the poor and the wealthy alike.

It is interesting, and not merely a coincidence I think, that when we talk about our feelings towards ourselves we often do so in pecuniary terms; we talk about our sense of worth or self-worth, or the value of our existence and of what we value in life, or the personal costs of this-or-that, and so forth. Notions of our 'worth' as individuals, to ourselves, to society, to our families, friends, and colleagues, etc, are bound to our concepts of wealth, and through that to the brute fact of our incomes.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...

Post by cronus » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:18 am

Poor around here ain't what they are in some places....
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Poverty around here is hi-brow
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