Gender Studies - what is taught in gender studies courses?

[JimC]

Articles in the Age newspaper over the last few years, actually, commenting on many of the issues in this thread. Many were by what I would call mainstream feminists, and some of the issues discussed involved critiques of the extreme positions of some academic feminists.

But perhaps such balanced commentary simply doesn't occur in the US...

[pErvinalia]

Not in 'persecuted white liberal' land.

[Forty Two]

Articles in the Age newspaper over the last few years, actually, commenting on many of the issues in this thread. Many were by what I would call mainstream feminists, and some of the issues discussed involved critiques of the extreme positions of some academic feminists.

But perhaps such balanced commentary simply doesn't occur in the US...

Perhaps not. In the US, and I believe Canada too, the "balance" is nonexistent, or virtually nonexistent. As I mentioned, we have folks like Christina Hoff Sommers, but they are lambasted by mainstream feminists, who accuse her of hate speech and shout down her presentations on college campuses.f

Any links? Titles? Authors? I'd love to see mainstream feminists critiquing extreme feminist positions.

[Forty Two]

On what articles Jim has been reading.

That isn't at all what you wrote.

[Forty Two]

[quote="pErvin"]
As I said, I'm making the extraordinary leap of faith that there are sensible article on the subject, like there are sensible articles on EVERY SUBJECT IN THE HISTORY OF SUBJECTS! And you agreed above that this isn't actually that big a leap to make. So you are just arguing now for the sake of arguing.

[quote]

I agreed that it is certainly "possible." However, acknowledging a possibility is not the same thing as demonstrating an actual fact.

If it is so obvious to you that there should be sensible articles on the subject - then where are the sensible articles? What are they? Why is it like pulling teeth to get a citation?

And, if you don't know of any, then of what import is the POSSIBILITY that there may be some out there?

[pErvinalia]

As I said, I'm making the extraordinary leap of faith that there are sensible article on the subject, like there are sensible articles on EVERY SUBJECT IN THE HISTORY OF SUBJECTS! And you agreed above that this isn't actually that big a leap to make. So you are just arguing now for the sake of arguing.

I agreed that it is certainly "possible." However, acknowledging a possibility is not the same thing as demonstrating an actual fact.

If it is so obvious to you that there should be sensible articles on the subject - then where are the sensible articles? What are they? Why is it like pulling teeth to get a citation?

Because you are shifting the goal posts in the hope that the focus will shift from the fact that your articles and videos are more often than not highly sarcastic and/or biased. That's the only point I made and it's all I'm interested in commenting on.

ps. stop fucking up the quoting.

[Cunt]

pErvin, you clearly dont know of any examples.

Doesnt matter if they exist or not - if you dont know of any, you must be MRA. I understand your reluctance to admit it, so I'll just move on to seeing of anyone else can say hwat sources offer reasonable examples of reasonable gender studies programs.

[Forty Two]

As I said, I'm making the extraordinary leap of faith that there are sensible article on the subject, like there are sensible articles on EVERY SUBJECT IN THE HISTORY OF SUBJECTS! And you agreed above that this isn't actually that big a leap to make. So you are just arguing now for the sake of arguing.

I agreed that it is certainly "possible." However, acknowledging a possibility is not the same thing as demonstrating an actual fact.

If it is so obvious to you that there should be sensible articles on the subject - then where are the sensible articles? What are they? Why is it like pulling teeth to get a citation?

Because you are shifting the goal posts in the hope that the focus will shift from the fact that your articles and videos are more often than not highly sarcastic and/or biased. That's the only point I made and it's all I'm interested in commenting on.

ps. stop fucking up the quoting.

The goalposts haven't shifted.

what are the unbiased and non-sarcastic articles?

The article in the OP is not sarcastic. What's the bias of the author?

Your generalized comments are just unsubstantiated bullshit, as usual.

[PsychoSerenity]

The article in the OP is not sarcastic.

Care to try that again with a straight face?

[JimC]

Articles in the Age newspaper over the last few years, actually, commenting on many of the issues in this thread. Many were by what I would call mainstream feminists, and some of the issues discussed involved critiques of the extreme positions of some academic feminists.

But perhaps such balanced commentary simply doesn't occur in the US...

Perhaps not. In the US, and I believe Canada too, the "balance" is nonexistent, or virtually nonexistent. As I mentioned, we have folks like Christina Hoff Sommers, but they are lambasted by mainstream feminists, who accuse her of hate speech and shout down her presentations on college campuses.f

Any links? Titles? Authors? I'd love to see mainstream feminists critiquing extreme feminist positions.

These are past newspaper articles, but next time I read one, I'll try to quote it here.

Now don't get me wrong; the particular articles you quote from time to time do, of course, demonstrate some quite extreme and absurd positions by the academic feminist brigade in the US, accompanied by defensive assertions that it is actually immoral to question them. I'm sure that somewhere in Australian university humanities departments there lurks similar creatures. What I am certain of, though, is that their actual influence and effects in Australian society is fairly minimal.

[Forty Two]

The article in the OP is not sarcastic.

Care to try that again with a straight face?

Here is the article:
http://quillette.com/2016/08/26/what-i- ... s-classes/

So, you think this author is trying to be mockingly or contemptuously humorous, by conveying meaning using language which normally signifies the opposite?

How so? Where is the sarcasm in this article?

[Forty Two]

A ballsy article on feminist theory - http://www.quillette.com/2018/01/02/no- ... ist-theory

[laklak]

Very interesting article, and pretty much sums up my approach to modern "feminist thought".

I just saw a FB meme about having many genders and gender fluidity What does that actually mean? I'm asking seriously here. I don't understand what they mean when they say "gender" in this context. Are they talking about "feeling" one is male or female or something else? What is the something else? Do they sometimes feel like a male and sometimes like a female and sometimes like a donkey or a chicken or a tardigrade? I honestly don't understand it. Perhaps I can't understand because I'm quite happy with my dick and cannot conceive of not having it (WTF would I hold while I sleep?). I can (maybe) sort of understand not feeling any gender (think soy boy), but other than male, female and none, what other genders are there? Is this where "otherkin" and suchlike nonsense comes in?

Truly, I am mystified. Can anyone explain it to a 63 year old cis-gendered, straight, white male in terms I can understand? Keep it to small words and elementary concepts, please, I'm working from a disadvantage here, toxic testosterone has rotted my brain.

[NineBerry]

Gender is the social sex. It refers to the stereotypic roles/behaviours that society assigns to certain sexes. Gender-fluid people are people that change over time which of these stereotypic roles they assume.

It has nothing do to with your dick.

But there are certain behaviours that society expects from you because you are male and others society would consider awkward because you are a male. For you, it would not feel comfortable to do stuff that is usually considered to be typically female. Subconsciously, you will most of the time follow these stereotypes. For gender-fluid people, what role they feel most comfortable in and which role they assume subconsciously, changes over time.

For, example, there are different ways males and females are supposed to dress and have their hair. You will feel uncomfortable when wearing clothes that are deemed to be clothes for women. For gender-fluid people, they do sometimes feel more comfortable wearing women's clothing and do sometimes feel more comfortable wearing men's clothing.

[Forty Two]

Men cannot know how women feel, according to feminists, but according to the trans community men can know that they feel like women.... even though there is no right way for a man or a woman to feel, and that such norms are not real, so a being masculine and feminine are not what it means to be male or female gendered -- men and women can feel like anything and still feel like men and women -- one man can feel manly but assess that as being female, and one can feel girly and assess that too as feeling like a male -- one woman can feel manly and still be female gendered and a woman can feel girly and consider herself male gendered.

Bottom line is there is no internal consistency and the words mean whatever one wants them to mean. If a woman says she can "feel" like a man, it doesn't matter that she can have no frame of reference as to what a man feels like, because, well, according to the new logic, she/zhe/zir/he doesn't need a frame of reference because the only thing that makes her/zhim/him a woman is her own choice on the matter or her own interpretation of her feelings about it -- she's not a she to begin with unless she says so -- so she feels like a man, she is a man. Genitals have nothing to do with being male or female, and neither does genetics/DNA. So, it can no longer be said that a woman cannot know she feels like a man. If she feels like a man, she was always a man, unless she feels different tomorrow, then she was always a woman, but mistaken, or she is "fluid" and can change with the wind.