Universal Basic Income thread

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Would you support it if it was economically cheaper than your current welfare system?

Yes
6
38%
Yes, why wouldn't I?
7
44%
No
1
6%
No, class warfare for me!
0
No votes
No (== Seth)
0
No votes
Cheese
1
6%
Dev
1
6%
 
Total votes: 16

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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:42 am

NineBerry wrote:Eating unprocessed meat is not very healthy.
If it's reared right and hygienically handled, you can eat raw meat fine. Not that I do such weird shit.
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:35 am

pErvin wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Taxing it has no point. It should be the zero point of taxation and everything above should taxed progressively.
Your two sentences are incompatible. It can't be both not taxed and taxed. What you describe in your last sentence is what I just proposed. It's a pity you seem so fucking woeful at reading what is clearly written.
Ok, in the cold light of day, now that my mind is allegedly clearer, I can see what you were trying to say, I think. A UBI wouldn't end up being taxed if the tax free threshold of the taxation system was raised by the same amount (or more) than the amount of the UBI. So it will only be "the zero point of taxation" IF you had no tax-free threshold before the UBI (i.e. in your current taxation system). Australia has a tax free threshold, something I assumed most advanced nations would have too. I see that the Dutch don't for some reason (it would want to be a good reason, as taxing the poorest in society is very regressive). So in your case you were thinking that a tax-free threshold would be introduced and it would be set at the value (or higher) of the UBI. In such a case, then the UBI wouldn't be taxed.

But to return to the original point, there would be a point in taxing it. It makes it a progressive (as opposed to a flat/regressive) payment. The poorer you are, the more UBI you receive. And as we already have the tax bureaucracy in place (and it would have to remain in place while ever you have a tax system), there is no efficiency saving by not taxing it.
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:32 am

Not playing on wxords with GST or stuff, you know many places that don't have it?
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:06 am

Dunno. We only got it less than 20 yrs ago or so.
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by rainbow » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:58 am

Svartalf wrote:
pErvin wrote:Yes, and it's TAXED above that. You said "Taxing it has no point". You can't hold both positions and make sense, dipshit.
bare survival income is ALREADY taxed by the VAT the people receiving it pay when buying anything.
In many countries essential items are VAT exempt.
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:36 am

here the vat on so called 'essentials' is lower, but it's still 5.5%, far from negligible, and there there's the stuff that's not classified as 'essential low tax', but hard to do without, like booze...
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by NineBerry » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:40 am

I can do fine without booze.

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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:48 am

Blasphemy! :nono:
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by rainbow » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:31 am

Svartalf wrote:here the vat on so called 'essentials' is lower, but it's still 5.5%, far from negligible, and there there's the stuff that's not classified as 'essential low tax', but hard to do without, like booze...
You brew your own. :ask: Where is the problem?
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by NineBerry » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:38 am

You have to have a licence to brew alcohol. Also, I think there is an additional tax on alcohol in France for producing alcohol.

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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by JimC » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:00 am

In Oz, you can brew your own beer or make your own wine, but you can't distill...
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:07 am

pErvin wrote: I see that the Dutch don't for some reason (it would want to be a good reason, as taxing the poorest in society is very regressive). So in your case you were thinking that a tax-free threshold would be introduced and it would be set at the value (or higher) of the UBI. In such a case, then the UBI wouldn't be taxed.
That is what I was trying to explain. :shiver:
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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:27 am

NineBerry wrote:You have to have a licence to brew alcohol.
I'd be surprised if you had to have one to brew at home for personal consumption. And even if you did, how would they ever know whether you had one or not? I'd extend my middle finger to that notion, and then brew some alcohol.
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:29 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
pErvin wrote: I see that the Dutch don't for some reason (it would want to be a good reason, as taxing the poorest in society is very regressive). So in your case you were thinking that a tax-free threshold would be introduced and it would be set at the value (or higher) of the UBI. In such a case, then the UBI wouldn't be taxed.
That is what I was trying to explain. :shiver:
I see that now. The weird thing is that you don't have a tax free threshold. If I could be arsed I'd look up to see what the prevailing trend is around the developed world. I'd assume that most social democracies would have a tax free threshold. It's terribly (relatively) regressive to tax the poor. Can't understand why any modern social democracy would do that.
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Universal Basic Income thread

Post by rainbow » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:39 am

NineBerry wrote:You have to have a licence to brew alcohol. Also, I think there is an additional tax on alcohol in France for producing alcohol.
...so you don't tell them about it. :whisper:
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