Obama Goes to Cuba

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Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:26 am

"President Castro, I think, has pointed out that in his view making sure that everybody is getting a decent education or health care, has basic security and old age, that those things are human rights as well. I personally would not disagree with him," Obama said.
As if in Cuba everybody gets a decent education, health care, security and old age support...lol. The myth sold about the Cuban health care system was embarrassing. They have a three tiered system (a) cash paying foreigners (medical tourism) is the top, (b) elite Cubans and party members also very good, and (c) shit for everyone else - for the common Cuban hospitals and clinics are crumbling, conditions are unsanitary, and if people have to go to the hospital, they must often bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce, finding an aspirin and antibiotics is difficult.

The ordinary Cuban survives on rations of rice and beans -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_Cuba - that's the security and basic needs being met.


"But it doesn't detract from some of these other concerns. And the goal of the human rights dialogue is not for the United States to dictate to Cuba how they should govern themselves, but to make sure that we are having a frank and candid conversation around this issue. And hopefully that we can learn from each other."

Obama made the comment at a joint press conference with the Cuban Communist dictator
LOL - "dictate to Cuba how they should govern themselves." What joke. Cubans don't govern themselves. They are in a Communist state, and the Castros have ruled for almost 60 god damn years. Whose dictating here?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/obama-wel ... le/2001662
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by laklak » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:17 pm

I think it's a great idea to normalize relations. Once you let MickyD's and Coca Cola in their hearts and minds will surely follow. Give 'em 20 years and Havana will be wall to wall condominiums full of retired New York Jews kvetching about not having a decent deli. Mah jong will replace dominoes as the national pastime and local stores will stock matzohs and gefilte fish.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:15 pm

laklak wrote:I think it's a great idea to normalize relations. Once you let MickyD's and Coca Cola in their hearts and minds will surely follow. Give 'em 20 years and Havana will be wall to wall condominiums full of retired New York Jews kvetching about not having a decent deli. Mah jong will replace dominoes as the national pastime and local stores will stock matzohs and gefilte fish.
What's Michael Moore's movie going to be? How capitalism made Cuba worse off? LOL.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Hermit » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:20 am

Forty Two wrote:As if in Cuba everybody gets a decent education, health care, security and old age support...lol. The myth sold about the Cuban health care system was embarrassing. They have a three tiered system (a) cash paying foreigners (medical tourism) is the top, (b) elite Cubans and party members also very good, and (c) shit for everyone else - for the common Cuban hospitals and clinics are crumbling, conditions are unsanitary, and if people have to go to the hospital, they must often bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce, finding an aspirin and antibiotics is difficult.

The ordinary Cuban survives on rations of rice and beans -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_Cuba - that's the security and basic needs being met.
Over 65 years of United States embargoes do that to a country.
Forty Two wrote:LOL - "dictate to Cuba how they should govern themselves." What joke. Cubans don't govern themselves.
Of course not. That's what the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, the Cuban Assets Control Regulations of 1963, the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, the Helms–Burton Act of 1996, and the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act of 2000 are for.
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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:01 am

Cuban life expectancy is the same as US, and infant mortality is lower. I thought Merca had the greatest health care system in the universe. :dunno:
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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by JimC » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:32 am

And it is a moot point whether any poverty there is caused by their particular economic system, or the years of the US blockade and embargo...

The best comparison is not with the US itself, but neighbouring island countries in their region. I suspect that the comparison would be favourable to Cuba, even though they have missed the tourist dollars going to other Caribbean countries because of the embargo.
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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:03 pm

Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:As if in Cuba everybody gets a decent education, health care, security and old age support...lol. The myth sold about the Cuban health care system was embarrassing. They have a three tiered system (a) cash paying foreigners (medical tourism) is the top, (b) elite Cubans and party members also very good, and (c) shit for everyone else - for the common Cuban hospitals and clinics are crumbling, conditions are unsanitary, and if people have to go to the hospital, they must often bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce, finding an aspirin and antibiotics is difficult.

The ordinary Cuban survives on rations of rice and beans -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_Cuba - that's the security and basic needs being met.
Over 65 years of United States embargoes do that to a country.
Bollocks. You mean, Cuba couldn't trade with the rest of the world? With US business and industry conveniently out of the way, there's 100 other countries with a wide-open market devoid of US competition.
Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:LOL - "dictate to Cuba how they should govern themselves." What joke. Cubans don't govern themselves.
Of course not. That's what the Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917, the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, the Cuban Assets Control Regulations of 1963, the Cuban Democracy Act of 1992, the Helms–Burton Act of 1996, and the Trade Sanctions Reform and Export Enhancement Act of 2000 are for.
Or, perhaps the Castro dictatorship? That might have something to do with it, I think. Jailing of political dissidents, assassinations, executions.....

The 1917 Trading With the Enemy Act is a problem? Funny, it's been British law for 100s of years that trading and commerce with enemies of the Crown are prohibited, unless permission is granted by the Crown government. It's, of course, only bad if the US does it. The US should allow trade with enemies.

The Cuban Democracy Act? You mean....sanctions on a dictatorship to try to effect change to a democratic society is bad? LOL.

The Foreign Assistance Act of 1961? That law reorganized the structure of then existing foreign aid, separating military from non-military aid. And, it created the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) to administer non-military, economic assistance programs..... so, this is a problem, how? The US should not give aid? Should not have mechanisms to control who gets aid? We should give equal aid to all countries, even enemy countries? What's your issue here?

Cuban Asset Control Regulations? Those are the US Treasury regulations that control the embargo. Again, so what? This doesn't "govern" Cuba. These regulations did not compel Castro to set up a dictatorship, rule with an iron fist for 65 years, and starve his people.

It's funny -- the embargo caused cuba's problems? man -- what a compliment to the US! And, on topic after topic, we hear how the US is really so much worse than the other western countries. We make shit products. We grow shit food. We provide shit healthcare. We can't even take care of our own people in the states. But, if the US doesn't trade with Cuba, it can't survive. Nobody else in the world can trade with Cuba. All the better, more enlightened, civilized countries, where life is so much better than in the US, were utterly incapable (or unwilling?) to trade with Cuba.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:18 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:Cuban life expectancy is the same as US, and infant mortality is lower. I thought Merca had the greatest health care system in the universe. :dunno:
LOL.

I never said, and never heard anyone say, that the US had the greatest healthcare system. Saying it's not the shit system you folks claim it is, isn't the same thing as claiming superiority.

But, I can't even believe you take seriously the assertion that Cuba has good numbers for life expectancy and infant mortality. I mean, that's just either dishonest, or profoundly ignorant. Cuba keeps its infant mortality rate down through a sky-high abortion rate. Its doctors are directed to closely monitor pregnancies and problem pregnancies in Cuba are aborted, and Cuban doctors have stated that prematurely born babies are often killed in order to not be considered live births. That's one of the reasons Cuba has the oldest population in Latin America.

I mean, dude, Cuba is a Soviet style Communist state. And, you buy its bullshit? Really?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:20 pm

JimC wrote:And it is a moot point whether any poverty there is caused by their particular economic system, or the years of the US blockade and embargo...

The best comparison is not with the US itself, but neighbouring island countries in their region. I suspect that the comparison would be favourable to Cuba, even though they have missed the tourist dollars going to other Caribbean countries because of the embargo.
On what basis is this suspicion? What islands are you talking about? Puerto Rico? The Caymans? Bermuda, Bahamas? Barbados? Dominican Republic?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:22 pm

Those were WHO stats.

Seth and his clones claim that Mercan healthcare is the greatest in the world.

And what about life expectancy? How do they fudge that? Keep otherwise dead people alive for years on respirators? :think:
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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:30 pm

And evidence for this directed abortion and infanticide claims?
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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:47 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:Those were WHO stats.
You think the WHO goes to Cuba and collects stats independently? What the fucking hell, dude?
rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth and his clones claim that Mercan healthcare is the greatest in the world.
Oh, well, go talk with them about that.
rEvolutionist wrote:
And what about life expectancy? How do they fudge that? Keep otherwise dead people alive for years on respirators? :think:
Issues of life expectancy are highly impacted by fucking infant mortality. So, a country like the US, which takes great measures to try to save risky pregnancies and expends extra effort on premature babies and such is going to lose more babies than countries that fucking abort a higher percentage of them, or throw the premies in the trash. Some countries don't even count many premies as live births, if they die quick enough after being born. If a newborn doesn't live more than 24 hours, it often doesn't show up in infant mortality statistics in Cuba, but in the US, if the baby lives even for a moment, it's counted as live birth. And, Cuba does not count its suicide rates as deaths for life expectancy purposes, and they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

The US has its own problems -- The biggest other impact on US life expectancy is gun violence -- 6 violent deaths per 100,000 -- and we have a high obesity rate. Big problems yes. But even with those big problems - and even with a very strict count of infant births and mortality, and far more reliable stats than totalitarian Cuba - the US still has a life expectancy of nearly 80. If we counted the way Cuba counts, our numbers would jump.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:50 pm

Forty Two wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Those were WHO stats.
You think the WHO goes to Cuba and collects stats independently? What the fucking hell, dude?
I don't know, dude, do have evidence that their stats are wrong?
rEvolutionist wrote:
And what about life expectancy? How do they fudge that? Keep otherwise dead people alive for years on respirators? :think:
Issues of life expectancy are highly impacted by fucking infant mortality. So, a country like the US, which takes great measures to try to save risky pregnancies and expends extra effort on premature babies and such is going to lose more babies than countries that fucking abort a higher percentage of them, or throw the premies in the trash. Some countries don't even count many premies as live births, if they die quick enough after being born. If a newborn doesn't live more than 24 hours, it often doesn't show up in infant mortality statistics in Cuba, but in the US, if the baby lives even for a moment, it's counted as live birth. And, Cuba does not count its suicide rates as deaths for life expectancy purposes, and they have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.
Evidence for any of this?
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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by Forty Two » Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:56 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:And evidence for this directed abortion and infanticide claims?
Oh, you need evidence now? You don't need evidence to accept Cuba's claims, do you? Or, do you have the evidence? (other than the WHO reporting the information the Castro regime sends them....)

My evidence are the reports from doctors who have left Cuba, and studies like this, from UNC-Chapel Hill -- http://thecubaneconomy.com/wp-content/u ... n-Cuba.pdf Concluding -- "Cuba’s IMR might be as much as twice the IMR reported by official authorities." "Relative to developed countries, Cuba’s corrected IMR is, by no means, comparable." Look at the charts a few pages in "late fetal deaths" are outlandishly high, leaving "early natal deaths" very very low....

But, you could just believe Fidel and Raul Castro, because they have no motive or opportunity to lie.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Obama Goes to Cuba

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:03 pm

Or you could get a grip.
Last edited by pErvinalia on Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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