Problematic Stuff

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pErvinalia
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:59 pm

They can walk..
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by laklak » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:12 pm

Just don't get caught in Donner Pass during a blizzard.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:27 pm

laklak wrote:Sounds like you have to do that in the Netherlands too.
We dont have to register to vote as you are already registered. Registering your address is common throughout mainland Europe. Also a personal ID number is used almost everywhere. What is against it? The Brits think it is a form of communism. The trouble is it suits the illegals in Britain and the rich who are often illegal. You can slip in and disappear. Here life gets complicated without that number. You cant do anything. Legally work, attend a doctor, go to school, open a bank account, buy a car or house. Cant be done without your citizen's number.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Alan B » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:47 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Alan B wrote:
JimC wrote:Here, once you are registered, all you need to do is have your name ticked off at the booth, and you're ready to roll...
I understand that you also have compulsory voting with a fine for not voting (unless there are extenuating circumstances).
Do you have an option to 'Abstain' on the ballot paper?
the usual practice is to scribble a dick and balls, or to write "get fucked" or similar on the ballot paper. :read:
In the UK it is an offence to deface a ballot paper, I believe.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by laklak » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:50 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
laklak wrote:Sounds like you have to do that in the Netherlands too.
We dont have to register to vote as you are already registered. Registering your address is common throughout mainland Europe. Also a personal ID number is used almost everywhere. What is against it? The Brits think it is a form of communism. The trouble is it suits the illegals in Britain and the rich who are often illegal. You can slip in and disappear. Here life gets complicated without that number. You cant do anything. Legally work, attend a doctor, go to school, open a bank account, buy a car or house. Cant be done without your citizen's number.
So that sounds pretty much like exactly what we do, except we don't have a single, federal level ID. If you don't have some sort of ID, be that driver's license, passport, or state ID card (all of which you must register with the state or federal government to obtain) then you can't do any of those things you mentioned.

The closest thing we have to a Federal ID is our Social Security number, but SS cards don't have a photo. But you need that number to do much of anything.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:07 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote: Legally work, attend a doctor, go to school, open a bank account, buy a car or house. Cant be done without your citizen's number.
It can be done here without a big brother citizen number.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:12 pm

Alan B wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Alan B wrote:
JimC wrote:Here, once you are registered, all you need to do is have your name ticked off at the booth, and you're ready to roll...
I understand that you also have compulsory voting with a fine for not voting (unless there are extenuating circumstances).
Do you have an option to 'Abstain' on the ballot paper?
the usual practice is to scribble a dick and balls, or to write "get fucked" or similar on the ballot paper. :read:
In the UK it is an offence to deface a ballot paper, I believe.
It probably technically is here as well, but there's no way to know who defaced a ballot. Even the politicians here joke about it from time to time. It's a bit of a tradition to deface your ballot paper in some circles. There's times I've thought about it with compulsory preferencing. I shouldn't be required to feed my vote to one of the two majors if I don't want them getting it. Thankfully Labor has pulled back a little bit from its Third Way (aka neoliberalism-lite) tendencies of past decades. It's not as offensive now to send my vote their way via preferences. On ideological grounds I'd still rather they didn't get it. But in terms of practicality, I'd do almost anything to avoid helping a conservative win anything.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:26 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote: Legally work, attend a doctor, go to school, open a bank account, buy a car or house. Cant be done without your citizen's number.
It can be done here without a big brother citizen number.
What's Big Brother about it? It is just your anglo-saxson mind set. All the countries do it here. Why is Britain in such a mess with immigrants? It has not got a clue where they are or if they are even in the country.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Alan B » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:01 pm

pErvinalia wrote:It probably technically is here as well, but there's no way to know who defaced a ballot. Even the politicians here joke about it from time to time. It's a bit of a tradition to deface your ballot paper in some circles. There's times I've thought about it with compulsory preferencing. I shouldn't be required to feed my vote to one of the two majors if I don't want them getting it. Thankfully Labor has pulled back a little bit from its Third Way (aka neoliberalism-lite) tendencies of past decades. It's not as offensive now to send my vote their way via preferences. On ideological grounds I'd still rather they didn't get it. But in terms of practicality, I'd do almost anything to avoid helping a conservative win anything.
While I agree with mandatory voting, I would object to no option to 'Abstain'. Without that option, it's nothing less than a bullying tactic. As you say, the only answer seems to be spoiling the ballot paper.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Svartalf » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:41 pm

I don't agree with mandatory voting, not so long as blank and null ballots won't legally serve a purpose, people who don't vote express their disgust about the system and/or their lack of trust for any of the proffered canidates... forcing people to vote without giving them an outles for such feelings is simple tyranny.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Rum » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:50 pm

Svartalf wrote:I don't agree with mandatory voting, not so long as blank and null ballots won't legally serve a purpose, people who don't vote express their disgust about the system and/or their lack of trust for any of the proffered canidates... forcing people to vote without giving them an outles for such feelings is simple tyranny.
However a great many people don't vote, I suspect because they are disengaged, think it 'won't make any difference' or are complacent. I don't agree that it should be compulsory either (it is in OZ - forgive me if that has already been covered..) Over half (66 per cent) of the UK population turned out to vote in the 2015 general election, around 35 per cent of those who didn’t vote were eligible.

Here is serves the Right well to have a large pool of non-voters. They tend to be the poorer, less educated and if they did vote they would affect the outcome significantly - and probably keep Labour permanently in power. Why Labour doesn't do more to engage with this population puzzles me.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Svartalf » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:28 pm

well, the 'not making any difference' is justified, since diffenrences are made only by aggregating votes... an official does not stand for the people who voted for him but for a nebulous amount of ballots, plus his own interests and those of whatever party or structure set him up as a candidate...
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by JimC » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:59 pm

Alan B wrote:
JimC wrote:Here, once you are registered, all you need to do is have your name ticked off at the booth, and you're ready to roll...
I understand that you also have compulsory voting with a fine for not voting (unless there are extenuating circumstances).
Do you have an option to 'Abstain' on the ballot paper?

Also, is Gerrymandering practised?
Yes, it is compulsory, in the sense that you must attend and fill in a ballot. There is no "official" way of abstaining, but quite a few people, fed up with politicians, do stuff like crossing out all the names and writing "Mickey Mouse" or something similar, which has the same effect. This is deemed an "informal" vote.

My understanding is that "Gerrymandering" is fairly minimal, at least in comparison to the US, given that electoral boundaries are reviewed and set by an independent body, the Electoral Commission, rather than politicians. Their mandate is to try to achieve boundaries which give as close to equal votes as possible.

PS - when I typed in politicians before, I did a typo, and the spell checker rendered it as "pelicans" I was tempted to leave it... :hehe:

PS 2.0
pErvinalia wrote:

...the usual practice is to scribble a dick and balls, or to write "get fucked" or similar on the ballot paper...
Didn't notice that reply till later. Same as my above, really, except that Victorians do it in a more cultured and civilised way... :tea:
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Hermit » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:43 pm

Alan B wrote:Also, is Gerrymandering practised?
It used to be a huge problem, particularly on a state government level. At on stage a rural Queensland vote was worth two urban votes. The Qld Premier, Sir Bjelke-Petersen became known as "Mister 19 percent". That was the popular vote for the party in the coalition government he was leading. In South Australia Sir Thomas Playford's party kept getting the majority of seats without the majority of the vote. Playford won the 1959 election with 45.7% of the vote giving his party 20 seats while the Labor Party got 54.3% of the vote and 17 seats. That is how the conservatives held on to power for three decades.

Beginning in the late 70s this changed. Seats were redistributed so they had next to identical numbers of voters, and creative boundary shaping was no longer possible. Seat management has been taken over by non-partisan electoral commissions on both the federal and state level.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:15 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote: Legally work, attend a doctor, go to school, open a bank account, buy a car or house. Cant be done without your citizen's number.
It can be done here without a big brother citizen number.
What's Big Brother about it? It is just your anglo-saxson mind set. All the countries do it here. Why is Britain in such a mess with immigrants? It has not got a clue where they are or if they are even in the country.
:blah: We've heard it all before. A citizen number is totally irrelevant to that.

And what's Big Brother about it? Well the government needing to know where you live at all times, for a start.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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