The US judicial system

[Sælir]

Ok, I want to begin with saying that I come at this with no previous knowledge of the matter.

I was translating a show called Vice Special Report: Prison. It was mostly about the length of sentences for drug dealing without violence in the US and the War on drugs.

Is this for real? Are men getting life in prison for their first offence if they just have enough drugs on them? Even though they showed no violence whatsoever?
One of the big things they discussed was how ridiculously the drugs are categorised. 100 grams of cocaine lands you in prison for the same duration as 1 gram of crack.
How is that possible?

I was also very shocked about these "ghost drugs" and that you could be charged with the intent of selling drugs even though you have no drugs. Is that not a bit strange? You didn't actually sell any drugs but you go to prison for years!

And the cost of all of this is madness!

Apparantly the senate is slowly changing things (like instead of a 100:1 on cocaine and crack it is 18:1) but how is it possible to do this properly?

Then when they come out they owe money. They have to pay fines. So if they can't get a job (which I understand is difficult with a criminal record) they get thrown back in prison! And in some states they have no rights to any help and can't get food stamps, social housing or even student loans.
Why are they not allowed to get student loans?

I just don't understand this!!
Can someone explain this to me?

[Tero]

Laws are by state. Many crimes are not federal. Stiff sentences for pot in Kansas and none in Colorado next door. My state nearby has 7 days in jail for pot from one ounce to a pound (about half kilo). Selling pot 1-20 years in jail.

Many states have life in prison for the the third serious crime. Even drugs.

Most states offer deals: rehab or jail.

[rainbow]

Laws are by state. Many crimes are not federal. Stiff sentences for pot in Kansas and none in Colorado next door. My state nearby has 7 days in jail for pot from one ounce to a pound (about half kilo). Selling pot 1-20 years in jail.

Many states have life in prison for the the third serious crime. Even drugs.

Most states offer deals: rehab or jail.

It would be interesting to know which states have the highest social problems due to drug abuse.

When I was in California it seemed to be rather easy to get a medical marijuana card, so the law there is a bit of a joke. On the other hand you can't walk down the street with an open bottle of beer.

[rachelbean]

Yes, it's really as fucked up as it sounds. The disparity between cocaine and crack sentencing is such blatant class/race warfare, it's insane. At least in California the governor recently passed a fair sentencing law that addresses that: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2 ... ncing.html

Anyway, if the subject interests you, I highly recommend a documentary film called "The House I Live In".

[Rum]

Very interesting visit to Amsterdam a few weeks ago. The smell of marijuana wafting out of bars and cafes and lots of laid back people enjoying the pace of life and not a sign of crime or violence anywhere.

[tattuchu]

Very interesting visit to Amsterdam a few weeks ago. The smell of marijuana wafting out of bars and cafes and lots of laid back people enjoying the pace of life and not a sign of crime or violence anywhere.

[Svartalf]

Very interesting visit to Amsterdam a few weeks ago. The smell of marijuana wafting out of bars and cafes and lots of laid back people enjoying the pace of life and not a sign of crime or violence anywhere.

I'll avoid that town, I hate that smell.

[mistermack]

I think that the disparity between coke and crack sentencing IS ludicrous. And racist, or at least elitist.

But it's also in response to the level of violent crime associated with crack. And the incredible addictive nature of crack. Cocaine's bad, but crack is hugely addictive.

But on the bright side, crack has massively kept down the prices that prostitutes charge for their services.
So I hear.

[laklak]

Like Tero said, it's usually state law. There isn't a single U.S. justice system, there are effectively 51 - 50 states and the Federal system on top of that. What's a crime on one side of the street might not be a crime on the other. Add to that country and city regulations and it gets real complicated real fast. Federal law doesn't generally come into a possession charge, that's usually state and/or local. Move it across a state line, though, and they get involved.

[mistermack]

The real weakness in the US judicial system is the intelligence of the US jury.

I sometimes feel a bit guilty for labelling them as stupid, without first-hand experience.
Then I read stuff like this :

The Stella Awards are named after 81 year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself and successfully sued McDonald's (in NM). That case inspired the Stella Awards for the most frivolous, ridiculous, successful lawsuits in the United States. Here are this year's winners:

5th Place (tie): Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas, was awarded $80,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little toddler was Ms. Robertson's son.

5th Place (tie): 19-year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000. and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps.

5th Place (tie): Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up since the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation, and Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. He sued the homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of $500,000. In my opinion this is so outrageous that it should have been 2nd Place!

4th Place: Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded $14,500. and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog might have been just a little provoked at the time, by Mr. Williams who had climbed over the fence into the yard and was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun.

3rd Place : A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500. after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx (tailbone). The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson had thrown it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an argument.

2nd Place: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the
bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms.Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000. and dental expenses.

1st Place: This year's runaway winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mrs. Grazinski purchased a brand new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home, (from an OU football game), having driven onto the freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back & make herself a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mrs.Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising her in the owner's manual that she couldn't actually do this. The jury awarded her $1,750,000. plus a new motor home. The company actually changed their manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there were any other complete morons around.

Give me a sense of humor, Lord; Give me the grace to see a joke, To get some humor out of life, And pass it on to other folk.

Of course, it might be all invented.
Still funny though.

[Hermit]

More lame than genuinely funny. Also untrue.

[mistermack]

Makes me laugh.

Anyway, the real life ones are just as bad. Rodney King and O J Simpson and Trayvon Martin.

And that Texas cripple who shot and killed a hooker, because she was trying to leave without having sex.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I think that the disparity between coke and crack sentencing IS ludicrous. And racist, or at least elitist.

But it's also in response to the level of violent crime associated with crack. And the incredible addictive nature of crack. Cocaine's bad, but crack is hugely addictive.

That's often stated by the authorities but there is no real evidence for it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crack_cocaine#Addiction

Crack cocaine is popularly thought to be the most addictive form of cocaine. However, this claim has been contested: Morgan and Zimmer wrote that available data indicated that "...smoking cocaine by itself does not increase markedly the likelihood of dependence.... The claim that cocaine is much more addictive when smoked must be reexamined." They argued that cocaine users who are already prone to abuse are most likely to "move toward a more efficient mode of ingestion" (that is, smoking).

The intense desire to recapture the initial high is what is so addictive for many users. On the other hand, Reinarman et al. wrote that the nature of crack addiction depends on the social context in which it is used and the psychological characteristics of users, pointing out that many heavy crack users can go for days or weeks without using the drugs.

[Seth]

Laws are by state. Many crimes are not federal. Stiff sentences for pot in Kansas and none in Colorado next door. My state nearby has 7 days in jail for pot from one ounce to a pound (about half kilo). Selling pot 1-20 years in jail.

Many states have life in prison for the the third serious crime. Even drugs.

Most states offer deals: rehab or jail.

It would be interesting to know which states have the highest social problems due to drug abuse.

The liberal ones, of course.

[Seth]

Very interesting visit to Amsterdam a few weeks ago. The smell of marijuana wafting out of bars and cafes and lots of laid back people enjoying the pace of life and not a sign of crime or violence anywhere.

Except the invisible crime of all those drug-addled slackers stealing from the productive class by using the Mace of State to take what's not theirs so that they have the time and wherewithal to sit around in bars and cafes smoking pot.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not happening.