Apelust comes to Rationalia?

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60740
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:13 am

:hehe:

No, just an interesting accessible piece I came across via facebook that seemed relevant in light of some of the discussions we've had here recently. There's a few quotable things in it, but here's one that I liked:
A young person with whom I am friends on Facebook recently posted the following as his status: “Why is it that all of a sudden the worst thing in the world you can be is a white, straight, middle class, christian? [sic]”

And I engaged him. Because I’m hearing this sentiment more and more from folks of privilege: There is a tremendous fear (no matter how grounded in fiction it may be) that they are under attack.

It is a fear peddled by conservative media and in daily conversation. It is a fear that what was once promised to us as people of identity privilege (often at the expense of others) is no longer a guarantee.

It is a fear that speaks to the progress –humble in some areas and significant in others – that has been made (and continues to be made) in overturning (or at least reforming) systems that were built fundamentally for the benefit of a tiny few.

But it is also a fear that speaks to the kind of resistance we can expect as we move forward in these struggles.

As we went round and round, my initial tact was to prove to him just how wrong he was about his sentiment.

He expressed that White people are discriminated against in job and education applications because of affirmative action, and I showed him the data that he’s wrong.

He complained that Christians are under attack because of the Gay rights movement, and I explained how it changes nothing for them or their rights to allow others to have full legal recognition.

This only seemed to make him angrier and more frustrated.

So I took a different route.

“None of this is to say that people with identity privilege do not struggle,” I said. “Plenty of us are struggling with real and tough things. Plenty of middle class White families are fighting in a system that is working against anyone who isn’t rich. It is just important to keep perspective about the relativity of privilege.”

This shifted the conversation considerably.

I don’t think I convinced him that he’s not under attack. But I do think this statement helped him see that, as he put it, “the problem is a broken and incompetent system.”

Another one:
So now, whenever I hear people make these types of statements, ones that ignore the reality of power structures and oppression, I try to use the “call it out, call them in” method.

The language that denies systemic oppression they are using must be called out as problematic and silencing to the experiences of those actually experiencing oppression.

But that doesn’t mean the person saying that language can’t be brought into a thoughtful conversation about the nature of oppression in the world around us.

In the case of the young man above, perhaps his family is struggling with the class inequality that is ever more present for middle class people of all races and he is projecting those concerns onto issues of race, religion, and sexual orientation.

Well, if I simply write him off as a bigoted jerk who doesn’t understand power structures, where do we go?

Instead, it is my responsibility as a person of privilege striving to be an ally to call him into discussion.

It is my responsibility to at least attempt to bring him to a place where his words are less hurtful, and – who knows? – perhaps doing so will help him along the path to being an ally himself.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/08/rac ... te-people/

Have at it!
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:20 am

Middle Class bullshit.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60740
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:37 am

How so?

(just to be clear, I'm quoting this stuff as I agree with it, roughly. There's also some good points worthy of discussion in there).
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:07 pm

I really don't know if I can be bothered getting into it with you. Let's just say its the kind of parochial "the poor things just need re-education" bullshit one hears from the pulpit. Plus both are proclaiming "the middle classes have it tough too". They cannot possibly be wrong, the sinners just need guided to the light. I'm not about to bend the knee to Jehovah, I'm damn sure I'm not doing it for Gaia.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Robert_S » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:15 pm

Audley Strange wrote:I really don't know if I can be bothered getting into it with you. Let's just say its the kind of parochial "the poor things just need re-education" bullshit one hears from the pulpit. Plus both are proclaiming "the middle classes have it tough too". They cannot possibly be wrong, the sinners just need guided to the light. I'm not about to bend the knee to Jehovah, I'm damn sure I'm not doing it for Gaia.
Now you're just being silly.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 51262
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Tero » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:27 pm

You mean white Christian folks won't be automatically going to college and becoming accountants and insurance agents anymore? Awful! Give them Wal Mart jobs.

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:28 pm

Robert_S wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:I really don't know if I can be bothered getting into it with you. Let's just say its the kind of parochial "the poor things just need re-education" bullshit one hears from the pulpit. Plus both are proclaiming "the middle classes have it tough too". They cannot possibly be wrong, the sinners just need guided to the light. I'm not about to bend the knee to Jehovah, I'm damn sure I'm not doing it for Gaia.
Now you're just being silly.
Sure. Neither of them read exactly like a fucking sermon.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Robert_S » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:39 pm

Audley Strange wrote:
Robert_S wrote:
Audley Strange wrote:I really don't know if I can be bothered getting into it with you. Let's just say its the kind of parochial "the poor things just need re-education" bullshit one hears from the pulpit. Plus both are proclaiming "the middle classes have it tough too". They cannot possibly be wrong, the sinners just need guided to the light. I'm not about to bend the knee to Jehovah, I'm damn sure I'm not doing it for Gaia.
Now you're just being silly.
Sure. Neither of them read exactly like a fucking sermon.
What church/denomination?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:40 pm

The church of Bourgeois Righteousness.
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Robert_S » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:52 pm

Audley Strange wrote:The church of Bourgeois Righteousness.
I don't see it. Are you saying that people shouldn't try to do what they think is right if they happen to be middle class? Should people not try to use what they think is the most effective technique to get their point across? Do you think they're advocating being too nice?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:14 pm

No I'm saying it comes off smug and condescending and slightly self congratulatory without saying much, like a sermon. "So a young lad came up to me and said Father, why is it Christians are under attack from the forces of Satan so often these days..."
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Blind groper
Posts: 3997
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:10 am
About me: From New Zealand
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Blind groper » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:00 pm

But Rationalia is one of the forces of Satan.

From someone's perspective, anyway.

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Audley Strange » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:04 pm

Satanism hurts demons too!
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Cormac
Posts: 6415
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:47 pm
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by Cormac » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:18 am

Audley Strange wrote:No I'm saying it comes off smug and condescending and slightly self congratulatory without saying much, like a sermon. "So a young lad came up to me and said Father, why is it Christians are under attack from the forces of Satan so often these days..."


:this:
FUCKERPUNKERSHIT!


Wanna buy some pegs Dave, I've got some pegs here...
You're my wife now!

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 21022
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Apelust comes to Rationalia?

Post by laklak » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:15 am

Why is it that all of a sudden the worst thing in the world you can be is a white, straight, middle class, christian?
Well Timmy, to be honest it isn't an all of a sudden sort of thing. Being a white, straight, middle-class Christian has always pretty much sucked ass. My advice, young man, it to move to the city. Pluck your eyebrows, shave your legs and take a walk on the wild side. You've got nothing to lose but your virginity.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests