Derail: PZ Myers on Decent Humans and Getting Laid

Derail: PZ Myers on Decent Humans and Getting Laid

Postby Ronja » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:14 am

This is a derail from the "Best of PZ Myers" thread viewtopic.php?f=38&t=29886 -- Ronja


PZ :swoon:

Decent Human Beings' Guide to Getting Laid at Atheist Conferences

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011 ... _guide.php
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby charlou » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:45 pm

PZ can get fucked.
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby devogue » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:47 pm

charlou wrote:PZ can get fucked.


+1
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Ronja » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:05 pm

charlou wrote:PZ can get fucked.

Because of that blog post or for more general reasons?
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby charlou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:17 am

Ronja wrote:
charlou wrote:PZ can get fucked.

Because of that blog post or for more general reasons?

That blog post in this instance. A shallow, patronising evaluation and admonishment. Typical PZ self-important wank.

Aside: That blog post is his personal opinion and has nothing to do with science so doesn't even belong in this subforum.
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby charlou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:26 am

For example, from that blog post:

The first thing you must know is that you haven't failed when the object of your desire says "no". That's a perfectly reasonable response, and even if you do everything exactly right, you're going to hear "no" more often than you do "yes". Accepting a refusal graciously is an important part of being a Decent Human Being.

You have failed if the person you're interested in calls your behavior creepy. That's where you need to step back and re-evaluate: you did something wrong. Decent Human Beings do not blame the other person, they recognize that they screwed up, accept their responsibility, and decide not to ever do that again.

The whole 'this is my word on how to be a Decent Human Being' approach (capitalised, no less), as though he has some authority on the matter because - as he opens his post with - he's scored, shagged and fathered three children, alienated me from the outset.

The second paragraph I simply call bullshit. If anyone needs me to explain why I call this bullshit I will endeavour to do so.
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Rob » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:57 am

On science and general atheism I find I can relate very well to his postings. Whenever feminist issues come up, however, I often feel that he has lost the plot.
I can live with doubt, and uncertainty, and not knowing. I think it's much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which might be wrong. [...] I don’t feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without having any purpose, which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn’t frighten me. - Richard Feynman
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Atheist-Lite » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:01 am

charlou wrote:For example, from that blog post:

The first thing you must know is that you haven't failed when the object of your desire says "no". That's a perfectly reasonable response, and even if you do everything exactly right, you're going to hear "no" more often than you do "yes". Accepting a refusal graciously is an important part of being a Decent Human Being.

You have failed if the person you're interested in calls your behavior creepy. That's where you need to step back and re-evaluate: you did something wrong. Decent Human Beings do not blame the other person, they recognize that they screwed up, accept their responsibility, and decide not to ever do that again.

The whole 'this is my word on how to be a Decent Human Being' approach (capitalised, no less), as though he has some authority on the matter because - as he opens his post with - he's scored, shagged and fathered three children, alienated me from the outset.

The second paragraph I simply call bullshit. If anyone needs me to explain why I call this bullshit I will endeavour to do so.


I never bothered with him - I'm not sure if that's a gut reaction but he always seemed a bit uninspiring, boring even. I'd reference a text-book for anything technical. I think nothing is more borish than a man pretending to be decent, he's just a man afterall. :coffee:
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby charlou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:17 am

Crumple wrote: he's just human afterall. :coffee:


;)
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Atheist-Lite » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:26 am

charlou wrote:
Crumple wrote: he's just human afterall. :coffee:


;)


I'm thinking about the glass ceiling here. :smoke:
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Ronja » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:27 am

charlou wrote:For example, from that blog post:

The first thing you must know is that you haven't failed when the object of your desire says "no". That's a perfectly reasonable response, and even if you do everything exactly right, you're going to hear "no" more often than you do "yes". Accepting a refusal graciously is an important part of being a Decent Human Being.

You have failed if the person you're interested in calls your behavior creepy. That's where you need to step back and re-evaluate: you did something wrong. Decent Human Beings do not blame the other person, they recognize that they screwed up, accept their responsibility, and decide not to ever do that again.

The whole 'this is my word on how to be a Decent Human Being' approach (capitalised, no less), as though he has some authority on the matter because - as he opens his post with - he's scored, shagged and fathered three children, alienated me from the outset.

We seem to read this blog post very differently, then. I read that PZ admits to limited experience (apparently he expects at least some of his readers to see that as a non-cool weakness) and that he has some strong opinions, but not that he would claim any authority.
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby charlou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:34 am

What do you make of his comment in the second paragraph I quoted?
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby charlou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:40 am

Fast forward to his last paragraph in that post:

Of course, if any more experienced commenters would like to offer further suggestions, they're welcome to continue…as long as they remember these are guidelines for Decent Human Beings, not misogynistic exploiters and parasites.

Oh, we're welcome to continue ... as long as we continue within the framework PZ designates, which PZ makes clear in paragraph two I quoted above. Someone cries misogyny and thus it is so.

Ronja, do you agree that elevator guy's invitation to coffee, as worded in the way Rebecca Watson claimed it was worded, is an example of misogynistic exploitation and parasitism?
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Ronja » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:46 am

charlou wrote:What do you make of his comment in the second paragraph I quoted?

The way I read it, he's assuming clinically sane, generally sensible and maybe also neuronormal people, without specifying that explicitly. He's not mentioning people with emotional problems, sociopolitical agendas or people on the Autism spectrum, which can be seen as a mistake or not. I noticed that he did not address any of those, but it did not disturb me. One blog post does not need to address every aspect of its topic, IMO.
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger
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Re: The Best of PZ Myers on Pharyngula

Postby Atheist-Lite » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:53 am

The first thing you must know is that you haven't failed when the object of your desire says "no". That's a perfectly reasonable response, and even if you do everything exactly right, you're going to hear "no" more often than you do "yes". Accepting a refusal graciously is an important part of being a Decent Human Being.

You have failed if the person you're interested in calls your behavior creepy. That's where you need to step back and re-evaluate: you did something wrong. Decent Human Beings do not blame the other person, they recognize that they screwed up, accept their responsibility, and decide not to ever do that again.


If they never did it again they wouldn't hear no so often. This is completely self-contradictory. I'd think someone with a background in the sciences would at least avoid doing that from one sentence to the next. It is my opinion he's looking for tips and hoping for discretion in this article, maybe isn't getting enough at home? He's just human and full of bullshit after all. :smoke:
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