Seabass wrote:Forty Two wrote:but I disagree on the racist, sexist and xenophobic comments.
Of course you do. I'm sure a lot of NSDAP voters didn't think Hitler was racist, sexist, or xenophobic. The thing about bigots is that most of them are too fuckin' stupid to realize that they're bigots.
This is an issue I've been talking about. When you expand the usage of these terms, like racist, sexist and xenophobic, and bigot, to this degree, they lose all meaning. It's the same thing with the usage of "neonazi" and such, which includes people who aren't that in that definition. It's why people like Jordan Peterson are called racists, sexists, and even neonazis or "alt right" when they are nothing of the sort.
And, of course, you press on with your insults...
Seabass wrote:
That's certain other folks, and now you, that can't talk to someone they disagree with without behaving like you are.
Oh, fuck off. I held no animus against Romney voters, McCain voters, Gary Johnson voters, or even Bush voters. Trump is different. Trump is beyond the pale. You fuckers crossed the line with Trump. Trump is an amalgam of all of humanity's worst traits. He is a thoroughly fucking vile and despicable individual who has no redeeming qualities. He is a monster wearing human skin. I simply cannot believe for the life of me that a decent human being could want a man like that in a position of power.
Oh, he wasn't my first choice. But when left with two vile, despicable human beings as options for President, I certainly don't have to accept your assessment as to who is the worse of the two options from a pragmatic standpoint.
Seabass wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, Trump voters are the American equivalent of NSDAP voters. I'm not exaggerating or being hyperbolic. The racism, the xenophobia, the sexism, the religious supremacy, the extreme nationalism—it's all there in spades.
Well, you can present your evidence anytime. It's all there in spades, you say, so you should be able to do that. But, an example here or there of a racist doesn't really prove the point. There are racists in the Democratic party too. Some idiot blathering on about North Korea, for example -- if you'd like me to post examples of idiot Democrats, I can do that too. It doesn't prove that the prevailing attitude of the voters for any given candidate are like that.
When we look at Trump's policies, for example, there really is nothing particular racist or xenophobic about them. They are described as such because of the assumption that Trump is those things. His immigration policy, for example, is mostly a set of policies that have been agreed to and even championed by Democrats before. Democrats used to brag about Obama deporting more people than Bush did (because, of course, he deported the right ones), so they were not against "border security," they just wanted it to be their guy doing the security. Hillary Clinton supported a border wall as Senator, and parts of it were built over the last 15 years -- not racist then, but now that Trump wants the wall, the wall is racist, not just Trump. And elimination of the Visa Lottery system - that's got strong bipartisan support and support of an overwhelming majority of Americans who think that giving away green cards based on a "lotto" system is not appropriate. Now, it's racist because Trump wants it. The Democrats now want to paint "chain migration" as a racist term, when it only became such when Trump took office. In 2013, every single Senate Democrat voted in favor of a bill to end the chain migration of siblings. It's a common term used for over 50 years, by democrats and republicans alike, and in relation to immigration to many countries around the world, but now the word "chain" is supposed to be racist and offensive to black and brown people...
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democ ... le/2647869
What anti-Trump folks do, quite often, is take stuff way out of context. If one is against "illegal" immigration, then that's racist against "immigrants." They say that pointing out the criminal element among illegal immigrants is false and racist because "immigrants" (legal ones) actually commit less crimes than citizens, which, of course, isn't the issue - nobody is looking to deport immigrants that are lawfully here.
When Trump says that Mexico isn't sending it's best, and that they're sending criminals, the allegation is twisted to say that he's calling Mexicans in general criminals. Obviously, that isn't what he said, and what he said is exactly what was said about Cuban boat lift folks in the 1980s, where a disproportionate number of those boat lifters were, in fact, criminals. It didn't disparage Cubans in general, because the general Cuban population is a different group than those who were boat lifted in and about 1980.
Everything is racist. Everything is sexist.
Seabass wrote:
The Republican party is in a really fucking ugly place right now. Although, credit where credit is due, at least most NSDAP voters probably believed in science.
Most NSDAP voters probably believed in the sciences of phrenology and eugenics, racial purity, and a hierarchy of races from Nordic, to Germanic, to Alpine, to Mediterranean to African to Jewish.
This comparison of the GOP voter to Nazis is absurd. I'm not a Republican, but it's still absurd.
Seabass wrote:
Sure he did. He simply also condemned others too.
He read a script. If you think that was a sincere condemnation, then you're even dumber than I thought.
You're entitled to your opinion, if you think you can read his mind. I know what he said, which appeared a fairly accurate assessment. I don't need the President to "condemn" this kind of stuff anyway. I need him to do the job that he was elected to do, which is to run the executive branch of the federal government, serve as commander-in-chief of the armed forces, and enforce the laws passed by Congress. I don't need him to pontificate on the merits of a protest or march in West Virginia, nor do I need him to tell us what we're supposed to think about it. He's the President, in a country with separation of powers and delegated duties - he's not a father-figure or a morality cop. We're all perfectly capable to concluding that racists are bad.
Seabass wrote:
It's you who are in the bubble, because you refuse to go outside your left-wing, SJW box, to the extent you read at all.
Me? Left-wing, SJW? Lmao. You only think that because you are so far to the extreme right that everyone looks left-wing, SJW, socialist, communist, antifa to you. Enjoy your paranoid, right-wing fantasies.
That's absurd, as I don't for a second believe everyone looks left wing.
The way you're bleating on, and aggressively attacking me for merely differing on political issues with you. The way you make this a moral crusade and assign me to the "bad" group, and sling your never-ending stream of insults. That's from the SJW playbook.
You call me right wing, but I'm not even that. I'm not even "right of center," or if I am it's only because liberal economic policy positions are considered to be on the right nowadays. My position on most issues is liberal on social issues, moderate on economics and military. I am an anti-theist atheist who nevertheless believes in freedom of religion. I am very pro-free speech, including for views I find loathsome. I am very much against the death penalty. I am very much pro-choice on abortion. I am in favor of most civil rights laws to protect against invidious race and sex discrimination in employment and in public accommodations. I very much in favor of protections for criminal defendants, including due process of law, right against selfincrimination, right against unlawful searches and seizures and the requirement of warrants and limits on stop and frisk, etc. I am very much in favor of limits on police power, and very much against the militarization of police that has taken place over the last 8 or 10 years. I am very much pro immigration, too.
I can go on, if you like. But, your nonsense about me being a paranoid right winger who thinks everyone is a communist or antifa, well, that's just some fantasy you've confected.
How about calm down, think for a second, and come at this from a perspective that people might have views not based on racism, sexism, xenophobia, etc? Let people speak for themselves for a change, instead of coming at them with nasty accusations and insults.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
